scoring and starts

Hi all,

When I first added starts and the ability to score by any field I had test
in the scoring code to check that all the boats being scored as a group were
in the same start. For example if scoring the whole series as one group
(F9) there could only be one start. If scoring by fleet (for example) the
boats in each fleet would have to be in the same start.

However I took it out because somebody came up with a legitimate (i.e. other
then for 'fun' results) reason (other than flights) why boats in a scored
group could span more than one start. For the life of me I cannot figure
out what that reason is - does anybody know? I want to put back the check
as a warning if possible.

e.g. scoring by fleet and boat A in the multi fleet and boat B in the multi
fleet are in different starts - how can this ever be right in a non-fun
non-flight context...?

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

···

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Colin
Pursuit races?
Needs a warning, whatever.
Mike

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Colin Jenkins
Sent: 20 April 2005 10:09
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] scoring and starts

Hi all,

When I first added starts and the ability to score by any field I had test
in the scoring code to check that all the boats being scored as a group were
in the same start. For example if scoring the whole series as one group
(F9) there could only be one start. If scoring by fleet (for example) the
boats in each fleet would have to be in the same start.

However I took it out because somebody came up with a legitimate (i.e. other
then for 'fun' results) reason (other than flights) why boats in a scored
group could span more than one start. For the life of me I cannot figure
out what that reason is - does anybody know? I want to put back the check
as a warning if possible.

e.g. scoring by fleet and boat A in the multi fleet and boat B in the multi
fleet are in different starts - how can this ever be right in a non-fun
non-flight context...?

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

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Hi Mike,

Pursuit races?
Needs a warning, whatever.
Mike

Yes, that's true, I didn't think of that, but it was something else...

Colin

···

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Colin,

I can envisage a scenario where different genres of boat, e.g. Cat &
Asymmetric, are split by rating value onto different starts and
possibly/probably sail a different number of laps but the results would be
by genre of boat. For example when a 49er and a Topper Mango, which are
both asymmetric spinnaker classes are both included ina an Asymmetric result
grouping, but start on different starts and perhaps sail a different number
of laps (aka Average Lap calculation).

Another scenario is where age group sailors (e.g. Junior, Youth, Master)
sail different classes which are on different starts but the results are
wanted by age group.

I suspect other people will come up with other requirements :wink:

Kind regards,
Huw Pearce
WebMaster, Datchet Water Sailing Club
www www.dwsc.co.uk
e-mail webmaster@dwsc.co.uk

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Colin Jenkins
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:26 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

  Hi Mike,

  > Pursuit races?
  > Needs a warning, whatever.
  > Mike

  Yes, that's true, I didn't think of that, but it was something else...

  Colin

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Huw,

I didn't think that sort of thing went on other than for 'fun' results -
i.e. alternative ways of scoring (other than the 'real' results) just for
interest/fun sake - e.g. by club say to see which club did the best.
Otherwise you're including boats in the same race that were actually in
different races...

A specific example. Two starts A and B for Slow Monos and Fast Monos. Both
groups sail the samne course, use the same physical start line 10 mins apart
and all boats do N laps. I can see that scoring all the boats as if they
were in the same race could be interesting, but surely the real results must
score each group (Fast/Slow) separately... because thye boats sailed in a
different physical/dynamic context; they are not comparable other then for
fun/interest...

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Huw Pearce
Sent: 20 April 2005 13:14
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

Colin,

I can envisage a scenario where different genres of boat, e.g. Cat &
Asymmetric, are split by rating value onto different starts and
possibly/probably sail a different number of laps but the results would be
by genre of boat. For example when a 49er and a Topper Mango, which are
both asymmetric spinnaker classes are both included ina an
Asymmetric result
grouping, but start on different starts and perhaps sail a
different number
of laps (aka Average Lap calculation).

Another scenario is where age group sailors (e.g. Junior, Youth, Master)
sail different classes which are on different starts but the results are
wanted by age group.

I suspect other people will come up with other requirements :wink:

Kind regards,
Huw Pearce
WebMaster, Datchet Water Sailing Club
www www.dwsc.co.uk
e-mail webmaster@dwsc.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Colin Jenkins
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:26 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

  Hi Mike,

  > Pursuit races?
  > Needs a warning, whatever.
  > Mike

  Yes, that's true, I didn't think of that, but it was something else...

  Colin

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Colin,

I agree with your comments for 'real' races but they tend to be Open
Meetings and above, i.e. outside club racing. Boats will sail in 'different
physical/dynamic' context when there are classes with a wide separation of
rating value;-) For example a 49er & a Buzz. When we were racing these off
the same start at Datchet it was quite frequent that a Buzz would be lapped
by a 49er at least once if not twice in a 45-60 minute race and end up
finishing 20-minutes plus after the 49er even if the wind did not change
significantly! I know we could get into the subject here of PH and or
Average Lap Racing :wink:

If for example a 49er finishes in 45-Minutes elapsed time a Buzz must finish
in 60.54-minutes elapsed time to come equal first on corrected

Just my 'two cents worth'

Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing what enhancements the
next version brings.
Kind regards,
Huw

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Colin Jenkins
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:32 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

Hi Huw,

I didn't think that sort of thing went on other than for 'fun' results -
i.e. alternative ways of scoring (other than the 'real' results) just for
interest/fun sake - e.g. by club say to see which club did the best.
Otherwise you're including boats in the same race that were actually in
different races...

A specific example. Two starts A and B for Slow Monos and Fast Monos. Both
groups sail the samne course, use the same physical start line 10 mins apart
and all boats do N laps. I can see that scoring all the boats as if they
were in the same race could be interesting, but surely the real results must
score each group (Fast/Slow) separately... because thye boats sailed in a
different physical/dynamic context; they are not comparable other then for
fun/interest...

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Huw Pearce
Sent: 20 April 2005 13:14
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

Colin,

I can envisage a scenario where different genres of boat, e.g. Cat &
Asymmetric, are split by rating value onto different starts and
possibly/probably sail a different number of laps but the results would be
by genre of boat. For example when a 49er and a Topper Mango, which are
both asymmetric spinnaker classes are both included ina an
Asymmetric result
grouping, but start on different starts and perhaps sail a
different number
of laps (aka Average Lap calculation).

Another scenario is where age group sailors (e.g. Junior, Youth, Master)
sail different classes which are on different starts but the results are
wanted by age group.

I suspect other people will come up with other requirements :wink:

Kind regards,
Huw Pearce
WebMaster, Datchet Water Sailing Club
www www.dwsc.co.uk
e-mail webmaster@dwsc.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Colin Jenkins
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:26 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

  Hi Mike,

  > Pursuit races?
  > Needs a warning, whatever.
  > Mike

  Yes, that's true, I didn't think of that, but it was something else...

  Colin

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Hi Huw,

I not sure we're not talking about the same thing here :slight_smile: Take your Buzz
and 49er example and let's say they start a race in different starts - would
the formal results ever include both classes of boats in the same scored
group of a race other than for fun/interest - e.g. in race 1 say, the Buzz
is 4th and the 49er is 5th...

Colin

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Huw Pearce
Sent: 20 April 2005 15:15
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

Colin,

I agree with your comments for 'real' races but they tend to be Open
Meetings and above, i.e. outside club racing. Boats will sail in
'different
physical/dynamic' context when there are classes with a wide separation of
rating value;-) For example a 49er & a Buzz. When we were racing
these off
the same start at Datchet it was quite frequent that a Buzz would
be lapped
by a 49er at least once if not twice in a 45-60 minute race and end up
finishing 20-minutes plus after the 49er even if the wind did not change
significantly! I know we could get into the subject here of PH and or
Average Lap Racing :wink:

If for example a 49er finishes in 45-Minutes elapsed time a Buzz
must finish
in 60.54-minutes elapsed time to come equal first on corrected

Just my 'two cents worth'

Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing what enhancements the
next version brings.
Kind regards,
Huw

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Colin Jenkins
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:32 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

Hi Huw,

I didn't think that sort of thing went on other than for 'fun' results -
i.e. alternative ways of scoring (other than the 'real' results) just for
interest/fun sake - e.g. by club say to see which club did the best.
Otherwise you're including boats in the same race that were actually in
different races...

A specific example. Two starts A and B for Slow Monos and Fast
Monos. Both
groups sail the samne course, use the same physical start line 10
mins apart
and all boats do N laps. I can see that scoring all the boats as if they
were in the same race could be interesting, but surely the real
results must
score each group (Fast/Slow) separately... because thye boats sailed in a
different physical/dynamic context; they are not comparable other then for
fun/interest...

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Huw Pearce
> Sent: 20 April 2005 13:14
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
>
>
>
> Colin,
>
> I can envisage a scenario where different genres of boat, e.g. Cat &
> Asymmetric, are split by rating value onto different starts and
> possibly/probably sail a different number of laps but the
results would be
> by genre of boat. For example when a 49er and a Topper Mango, which are
> both asymmetric spinnaker classes are both included ina an
> Asymmetric result
> grouping, but start on different starts and perhaps sail a
> different number
> of laps (aka Average Lap calculation).
>
> Another scenario is where age group sailors (e.g. Junior, Youth, Master)
> sail different classes which are on different starts but the results are
> wanted by age group.
>
> I suspect other people will come up with other requirements :wink:
>
> Kind regards,
> Huw Pearce
> WebMaster, Datchet Water Sailing Club
> www www.dwsc.co.uk
> e-mail webmaster@dwsc.co.uk
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> Colin Jenkins
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:26 AM
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> > Pursuit races?
> > Needs a warning, whatever.
> > Mike
>
> Yes, that's true, I didn't think of that, but it was something else...
>
> Colin
>
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>
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If you wish to present trophies to the best corrected time in a race that has multiple starts you need to be able to score that way. For instance the Newport to Ensenada race has 500 starters in 24 fleets. Forty eight trophies are presented many of which are awarded combined classes.

http://www.nosa.org/04_documents/04_final_TBN2E-trophy.pdf

Best Elapsed (Awarded to the first boat to finish)
Best Corrected (Awarded to the Multihull or Monohull with the lowest corrected time)
First Mexican Boat (Awarded to the Mexican registered boat with the lowest corrected time)
First All Female (Awarded to the all female crew with the lowest corrected time)
First Double Handed (Awarded to the all double handed boat with the lowest corrected time)
First Cruising Boat (Awarded to the crusing boat with the lowest corrected time)

In all cases you are scoring across fleets, Mexican, Female and Double Handed boats can be entered in any of the 24 handicap fleets and start with like rated boats. What is needed is to be able to score in multiple different ways in a single run based upon the trophies.

PHRF-A
PHRF-B
PHRF-C
PHRF-D
PHRF-E
PHRF-F
PHRF-G
etc.
Double-Handed (Would include all double handed boats from all fleets PHRF-A/B/C/...)
All-Female (Would include all female crewed boats from all fleets PHRF-A/B/C/...)
Mexican (Would include all Mexican registered boats from all fleets PHRF-A/B/C/...)
Multihull (Would include all multihull boats from all fleets PHRF-A/B/C/...)

Potentiall a Mexican multihull boat sailed by two females could five trophies, PHRF-?, Double-Handed, All Female, Mexican, Multihull.

The Trophies table should drive how the scoring is done. You select the criteria for scoring and Sailwave scores all eligible boats.

PHRF-A would include all boats in the PHRF-A fleet
Mexican Trophy would include all Mexican registered boats which may include boats in PHRF-A
ect.....

Unfourtunately we have not been able to calculate the results using Sailwave.

Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

----Original Message Follows----

···

From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [sailwave] scoring and starts
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:09:06 +0100

Hi all,

When I first added starts and the ability to score by any field I had test
in the scoring code to check that all the boats being scored as a group were
in the same start. For example if scoring the whole series as one group
(F9) there could only be one start. If scoring by fleet (for example) the
boats in each fleet would have to be in the same start.

However I took it out because somebody came up with a legitimate (i.e. other
then for 'fun' results) reason (other than flights) why boats in a scored
group could span more than one start. For the life of me I cannot figure
out what that reason is - does anybody know? I want to put back the check
as a warning if possible.

e.g. scoring by fleet and boat A in the multi fleet and boat B in the multi
fleet are in different starts - how can this ever be right in a non-fun
non-flight context...?

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

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Several examples of boats starting at different times that are scored together.

Fastnet Race
Newport Ensenada Race
Round the Island Race
Sydney Hobart Race
Trans Pacific Race

They all have multiple starts, but calculate an overall winner as the boat with the lowest elapsed time. The Trans Pacific Race from Los Angeles to Hawaii has starts spread across several days.

Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

----Original Message Follows----

···

From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:27:12 +0100

Hi Huw,

I not sure we're not talking about the same thing here :slight_smile: Take your Buzz
and 49er example and let's say they start a race in different starts - would
the formal results ever include both classes of boats in the same scored
group of a race other than for fun/interest - e.g. in race 1 say, the Buzz
is 4th and the 49er is 5th...

Colin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Huw Pearce
> Sent: 20 April 2005 15:15
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
>
> Colin,
>
> I agree with your comments for 'real' races but they tend to be Open
> Meetings and above, i.e. outside club racing. Boats will sail in
> 'different
> physical/dynamic' context when there are classes with a wide separation of
> rating value;-) For example a 49er & a Buzz. When we were racing
> these off
> the same start at Datchet it was quite frequent that a Buzz would
> be lapped
> by a 49er at least once if not twice in a 45-60 minute race and end up
> finishing 20-minutes plus after the 49er even if the wind did not change
> significantly! I know we could get into the subject here of PH and or
> Average Lap Racing :wink:
>
> If for example a 49er finishes in 45-Minutes elapsed time a Buzz
> must finish
> in 60.54-minutes elapsed time to come equal first on corrected
>
> Just my 'two cents worth'
>
> Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing what enhancements the
> next version brings.
> Kind regards,
> Huw
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> Colin Jenkins
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:32 PM
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
>
> Hi Huw,
>
> I didn't think that sort of thing went on other than for 'fun' results -
> i.e. alternative ways of scoring (other than the 'real' results) just for
> interest/fun sake - e.g. by club say to see which club did the best.
> Otherwise you're including boats in the same race that were actually in
> different races...
>
> A specific example. Two starts A and B for Slow Monos and Fast
> Monos. Both
> groups sail the samne course, use the same physical start line 10
> mins apart
> and all boats do N laps. I can see that scoring all the boats as if they
> were in the same race could be interesting, but surely the real
> results must
> score each group (Fast/Slow) separately... because thye boats sailed in a
> different physical/dynamic context; they are not comparable other then for
> fun/interest...
>
> Regards,
> Colin
> www.sailwave.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Huw Pearce
> > Sent: 20 April 2005 13:14
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
> >
> > Colin,
> >
> > I can envisage a scenario where different genres of boat, e.g. Cat &
> > Asymmetric, are split by rating value onto different starts and
> > possibly/probably sail a different number of laps but the
> results would be
> > by genre of boat. For example when a 49er and a Topper Mango, which are
> > both asymmetric spinnaker classes are both included ina an
> > Asymmetric result
> > grouping, but start on different starts and perhaps sail a
> > different number
> > of laps (aka Average Lap calculation).
> >
> > Another scenario is where age group sailors (e.g. Junior, Youth, Master)
> > sail different classes which are on different starts but the results are
> > wanted by age group.
> >
> > I suspect other people will come up with other requirements :wink:
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Huw Pearce
> > WebMaster, Datchet Water Sailing Club
> > www www.dwsc.co.uk
> > e-mail webmaster@dwsc.co.uk
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> > Colin Jenkins
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:26 AM
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > > Pursuit races?
> > > Needs a warning, whatever.
> > > Mike
> >
> > Yes, that's true, I didn't think of that, but it was something else...
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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> >
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> > http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
> >
> > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> > sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > --
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> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
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> > of Service.
> >
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Hi Mark,

Thanks. I must get of out of the small boat mode that I seem to think in
most of the time...

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mark Townsend
Sent: 20 April 2005 16:52
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

Several examples of boats starting at different times that are scored
together.

Fastnet Race
Newport Ensenada Race
Round the Island Race
Sydney Hobart Race
Trans Pacific Race

They all have multiple starts, but calculate an overall winner as
the boat
with the lowest elapsed time. The Trans Pacific Race from Los Angeles to
Hawaii has starts spread across several days.

Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:27:12 +0100

Hi Huw,

I not sure we're not talking about the same thing here :slight_smile: Take your Buzz
and 49er example and let's say they start a race in different
starts - would
the formal results ever include both classes of boats in the same scored
group of a race other than for fun/interest - e.g. in race 1 say, the Buzz
is 4th and the 49er is 5th...

Colin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Huw Pearce
> Sent: 20 April 2005 15:15
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
>
>
>
> Colin,
>
> I agree with your comments for 'real' races but they tend to be Open
> Meetings and above, i.e. outside club racing. Boats will sail in
> 'different
> physical/dynamic' context when there are classes with a wide
separation
of
> rating value;-) For example a 49er & a Buzz. When we were racing
> these off
> the same start at Datchet it was quite frequent that a Buzz would
> be lapped
> by a 49er at least once if not twice in a 45-60 minute race and end up
> finishing 20-minutes plus after the 49er even if the wind did
not change
> significantly! I know we could get into the subject here of PH and or
> Average Lap Racing :wink:
>
> If for example a 49er finishes in 45-Minutes elapsed time a Buzz
> must finish
> in 60.54-minutes elapsed time to come equal first on corrected
>
> Just my 'two cents worth'
>
> Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing what
enhancements the
> next version brings.
> Kind regards,
> Huw
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> Colin Jenkins
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:32 PM
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
>
>
>
> Hi Huw,
>
> I didn't think that sort of thing went on other than for 'fun'
results -
> i.e. alternative ways of scoring (other than the 'real'
results) just for
> interest/fun sake - e.g. by club say to see which club did the best.
> Otherwise you're including boats in the same race that were actually in
> different races...
>
> A specific example. Two starts A and B for Slow Monos and Fast
> Monos. Both
> groups sail the samne course, use the same physical start line 10
> mins apart
> and all boats do N laps. I can see that scoring all the boats
as if they
> were in the same race could be interesting, but surely the real
> results must
> score each group (Fast/Slow) separately... because thye boats
sailed in
a
> different physical/dynamic context; they are not comparable other then
for
> fun/interest...
>
> Regards,
> Colin
> www.sailwave.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Huw Pearce
> > Sent: 20 April 2005 13:14
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
> >
> >
> >
> > Colin,
> >
> > I can envisage a scenario where different genres of boat, e.g. Cat &
> > Asymmetric, are split by rating value onto different starts and
> > possibly/probably sail a different number of laps but the
> results would be
> > by genre of boat. For example when a 49er and a Topper Mango, which
are
> > both asymmetric spinnaker classes are both included ina an
> > Asymmetric result
> > grouping, but start on different starts and perhaps sail a
> > different number
> > of laps (aka Average Lap calculation).
> >
> > Another scenario is where age group sailors (e.g. Junior, Youth,
Master)
> > sail different classes which are on different starts but the results
are
> > wanted by age group.
> >
> > I suspect other people will come up with other requirements :wink:
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Huw Pearce
> > WebMaster, Datchet Water Sailing Club
> > www www.dwsc.co.uk
> > e-mail webmaster@dwsc.co.uk
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> > Colin Jenkins
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:26 AM
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
> >
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > > Pursuit races?
> > > Needs a warning, whatever.
> > > Mike
> >
> > Yes, that's true, I didn't think of that, but it was something
else...
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.17 - Release Date:
19/04/2005
> >
> >
> >
> > -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> > http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
> >
> > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> > sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > --
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> > of Service.
> >
> >
> > --
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> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.17 - Release Date:
19/04/2005
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Hi Mark,

The Trophies table should drive how the scoring is done. You select the
criteria for scoring and Sailwave scores all eligible boats.

This is in fact the way 1.59 is evolving, except that your trophies table is
a list of scoring systems can can be applied (rather than 'the' scoring
system now). Next release it's likely that you'll only be able to apply
them one at a time but do-them-all-now will be possible later.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I have saved your email for reference.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

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Hi Colin
If I understand you correctly, the answer is yes, we would want to score boats together from
separate starts.
We run the Tiger Trophy (250 boats!) on this basis and have a fast & slow start purely to avoid
total carnage!!

Regards
Ralph

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 20 April 2005 15:27
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

Hi Huw,

I not sure we're not talking about the same thing here :slight_smile: Take your Buzz
and 49er example and let's say they start a race in different starts - would
the formal results ever include both classes of boats in the same scored
group of a race other than for fun/interest - e.g. in race 1 say, the Buzz
is 4th and the 49er is 5th...

Colin

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Huw Pearce
Sent: 20 April 2005 15:15
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

Colin,

I agree with your comments for 'real' races but they tend to be Open
Meetings and above, i.e. outside club racing. Boats will sail in
'different
physical/dynamic' context when there are classes with a wide separation of
rating value;-) For example a 49er & a Buzz. When we were racing
these off
the same start at Datchet it was quite frequent that a Buzz would
be lapped
by a 49er at least once if not twice in a 45-60 minute race and end up
finishing 20-minutes plus after the 49er even if the wind did not change
significantly! I know we could get into the subject here of PH and or
Average Lap Racing :wink:

If for example a 49er finishes in 45-Minutes elapsed time a Buzz
must finish
in 60.54-minutes elapsed time to come equal first on corrected

Just my 'two cents worth'

Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing what enhancements the
next version brings.
Kind regards,
Huw

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Colin Jenkins
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:32 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

Hi Huw,

I didn't think that sort of thing went on other than for 'fun' results -
i.e. alternative ways of scoring (other than the 'real' results) just for
interest/fun sake - e.g. by club say to see which club did the best.
Otherwise you're including boats in the same race that were actually in
different races...

A specific example. Two starts A and B for Slow Monos and Fast
Monos. Both
groups sail the samne course, use the same physical start line 10
mins apart
and all boats do N laps. I can see that scoring all the boats as if they
were in the same race could be interesting, but surely the real
results must
score each group (Fast/Slow) separately... because thye boats sailed in a
different physical/dynamic context; they are not comparable other then for
fun/interest...

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Huw Pearce
> Sent: 20 April 2005 13:14
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
>
>
>
> Colin,
>
> I can envisage a scenario where different genres of boat, e.g. Cat &
> Asymmetric, are split by rating value onto different starts and
> possibly/probably sail a different number of laps but the
results would be
> by genre of boat. For example when a 49er and a Topper Mango, which are
> both asymmetric spinnaker classes are both included ina an
> Asymmetric result
> grouping, but start on different starts and perhaps sail a
> different number
> of laps (aka Average Lap calculation).
>
> Another scenario is where age group sailors (e.g. Junior, Youth, Master)
> sail different classes which are on different starts but the results are
> wanted by age group.
>
> I suspect other people will come up with other requirements :wink:
>
> Kind regards,
> Huw Pearce
> WebMaster, Datchet Water Sailing Club
> www www.dwsc.co.uk
> e-mail webmaster@dwsc.co.uk
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> Colin Jenkins
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:26 AM
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> > Pursuit races?
> > Needs a warning, whatever.
> > Mike
>
> Yes, that's true, I didn't think of that, but it was something else...
>
> Colin
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.17 - Release Date: 19/04/2005
>
>
>
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> http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> --
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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> of Service.
>
>
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> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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>
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Hi Ralph,

OK, thanks. So much for that plan (warn if a scored group spans more than
one start)... :slight_smile:

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Tingle
Sent: 20 April 2005 17:54
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

Hi Colin
If I understand you correctly, the answer is yes, we would want
to score boats together from
separate starts.
We run the Tiger Trophy (250 boats!) on this basis and have a
fast & slow start purely to avoid
total carnage!!

Regards
Ralph

From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 20 April 2005 15:27
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts

Hi Huw,

I not sure we're not talking about the same thing here :slight_smile: Take your Buzz
and 49er example and let's say they start a race in different
starts - would
the formal results ever include both classes of boats in the same scored
group of a race other than for fun/interest - e.g. in race 1 say, the Buzz
is 4th and the 49er is 5th...

Colin

> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Huw Pearce
> Sent: 20 April 2005 15:15
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
>
>
>
> Colin,
>
> I agree with your comments for 'real' races but they tend to be Open
> Meetings and above, i.e. outside club racing. Boats will sail in
> 'different
> physical/dynamic' context when there are classes with a wide
separation of
> rating value;-) For example a 49er & a Buzz. When we were racing
> these off
> the same start at Datchet it was quite frequent that a Buzz would
> be lapped
> by a 49er at least once if not twice in a 45-60 minute race and end up
> finishing 20-minutes plus after the 49er even if the wind did not change
> significantly! I know we could get into the subject here of PH and or
> Average Lap Racing :wink:
>
> If for example a 49er finishes in 45-Minutes elapsed time a Buzz
> must finish
> in 60.54-minutes elapsed time to come equal first on corrected
>
> Just my 'two cents worth'
>
> Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing what enhancements the
> next version brings.
> Kind regards,
> Huw
>
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> Colin Jenkins
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:32 PM
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
>
>
>
> Hi Huw,
>
> I didn't think that sort of thing went on other than for 'fun' results -
> i.e. alternative ways of scoring (other than the 'real'
results) just for
> interest/fun sake - e.g. by club say to see which club did the best.
> Otherwise you're including boats in the same race that were actually in
> different races...
>
> A specific example. Two starts A and B for Slow Monos and Fast
> Monos. Both
> groups sail the samne course, use the same physical start line 10
> mins apart
> and all boats do N laps. I can see that scoring all the boats
as if they
> were in the same race could be interesting, but surely the real
> results must
> score each group (Fast/Slow) separately... because thye boats
sailed in a
> different physical/dynamic context; they are not comparable
other then for
> fun/interest...
>
> Regards,
> Colin
> www.sailwave.com
>
>
> > From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Huw Pearce
> > Sent: 20 April 2005 13:14
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
> >
> >
> >
> > Colin,
> >
> > I can envisage a scenario where different genres of boat, e.g. Cat &
> > Asymmetric, are split by rating value onto different starts and
> > possibly/probably sail a different number of laps but the
> results would be
> > by genre of boat. For example when a 49er and a Topper
Mango, which are
> > both asymmetric spinnaker classes are both included ina an
> > Asymmetric result
> > grouping, but start on different starts and perhaps sail a
> > different number
> > of laps (aka Average Lap calculation).
> >
> > Another scenario is where age group sailors (e.g. Junior,
Youth, Master)
> > sail different classes which are on different starts but the
results are
> > wanted by age group.
> >
> > I suspect other people will come up with other requirements :wink:
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Huw Pearce
> > WebMaster, Datchet Water Sailing Club
> > www www.dwsc.co.uk
> > e-mail webmaster@dwsc.co.uk
> >
> >
> > From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> > Colin Jenkins
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:26 AM
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
> >
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > > Pursuit races?
> > > Needs a warning, whatever.
> > > Mike
> >
> > Yes, that's true, I didn't think of that, but it was
something else...
> >
> > Colin
> >
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Thanks Colin... I am happy to provide you any additional information you might need.

Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

----Original Message Follows----

···

From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sailwave] scoring and starts
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:17:34 +0100

Hi Mark,

> The Trophies table should drive how the scoring is done. You select the
> criteria for scoring and Sailwave scores all eligible boats.

This is in fact the way 1.59 is evolving, except that your trophies table is
a list of scoring systems can can be applied (rather than 'the' scoring
system now). Next release it's likely that you'll only be able to apply
them one at a time but do-them-all-now will be possible later.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I have saved your email for reference.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

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