Scoring specific classes separately within a larger combined class

nellie150549 · 4 November 2015 17:38

Is there an easy way of scoring two or more classes as one combined class then score them again as separate classes?

Huw2 · 4 November 2015 19:19

Hi,

Short answer yes. You need to read the SI's carefully as to what

they say about scoring the combined classes and the classes
individually. Do the SI’s say the results of the separate classes
will be re-scored or the results extracted from the combined
results? Why do I ask this question?

It is possible if the classes are re-scored that a boat will be

placed above another boat compared to the overall standings in the
combined class. This due to the relative finishing places in the
combined class being different to the individual class. How do I
know? It has happened to me on a couple of occasions and it can get
very heated, especially if junior classes and parents get involved.

If the SI's say nothing then they, in my opinion, need to be amended

to state exactly what is intended.

Kind regards,
Huw

···

On 04/11/2015 17:38,
[sailwave] wrote:

nellie150549@yahoo.com

            Is there an easy way of scoring two or more classes
as one combined class then score them again as separate
classes?

This email has been checked for
viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

www.avast.com

Huw2 · 4 November 2015 19:26

Hi,

Forgot to say how to score classes separately, whoops.

To score combined you are probably using the first scoring option in

Score series. To score individual classes use the second option and
select the the appropriate field, hopefully the class field, from
the drop down list. Doing this will RE-SORE the results for each
class independently.

If EXTRACTED results are used you could use the drop-down list box

under the first scoring option, again selecting the appropriate
field - probably the class field.

Kind regards,
Huw

···

On 04/11/2015 19:19, Huw Pearce wrote:

Hi,
  Short answer yes. You need to read the SI's carefully as to what
they say about scoring the combined classes and the classes
individually. Do the SI’s say the results of the separate classes
will be re-scored or the results extracted from the combined
results? Why do I ask this question?
  It is possible if the classes are re-scored that a boat will be
placed above another boat compared to the overall standings in the
combined class. This due to the relative finishing places in the
combined class being different to the individual class. How do I
know? It has happened to me on a couple of occasions and it can
get very heated, especially if junior classes and parents get
involved.
  If the SI's say nothing then they, in my opinion, need to be
amended to state exactly what is intended.
  Kind regards,

  Huw

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

www.avast.com

    On 04/11/2015 17:38, [sailwave] wrote:

nellie150549@yahoo.com

              Is there an easy way of scoring two or more
classes as one combined class then score them again as
separate classes?

This email has been checked for
viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Rob_Morton · 4 November 2015 19:55

Huw,

Why would you not score the whole fleet (the 2 classes) together, but also have the 2 classes as aliases so as to derive the ‘subclasses’ of each separate class?

I currently do this to get a subseries from my local club races for one, well populated class.

Rob Morton

Pambula NSW Australia

···

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, 5 November 2015 6:26
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Scoring specific classes separately within a larger combined class

Hi,

Forgot to say how to score classes separately, whoops.

To score combined you are probably using the first scoring option in Score series. To score individual classes use the second option and select the the appropriate field, hopefully the class field, from the drop down list. Doing this will RE-SORE the results for each class independently.

If EXTRACTED results are used you could use the drop-down list box under the first scoring option, again selecting the appropriate field - probably the class field.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 04/11/2015 19:19, Huw Pearce wrote:

Hi,

Short answer yes. You need to read the SI’s carefully as to what they say about scoring the combined classes and the classes individually. Do the SI’s say the results of the separate classes will be re-scored or the results extracted from the combined results? Why do I ask this question?

It is possible if the classes are re-scored that a boat will be placed above another boat compared to the overall standings in the combined class. This due to the relative finishing places in the combined class being different to the individual class. How do I know? It has happened to me on a couple of occasions and it can get very heated, especially if junior classes and parents get involved.

If the SI’s say nothing then they, in my opinion, need to be amended to state exactly what is intended.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 04/11/2015 17:38, nellie150549@yahoo.com [sailwave] wrote:

Is there an easy way of scoring two or more classes as one combined class then score them again as separate classes?

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Huw2 · 4 November 2015 20:07

Hi Rob,

Yes you could use aliases, but if it is just two classes then the

added complication is not necessary in my view. Aliases become more
useful when different rating systems are wanted as well for
groupings of boats.

Kind regards,
Huw

···

On 04/11/2015 19:55, ‘Rob Morton -
ozemail’ [sailwave] wrote:

robmorton@ozemail.com.au

Huw,

              Why
would you not score the whole fleet (the 2 classes)
together, but also have the 2 classes as aliases so as
to derive the ‘subclasses’ of each separate class?

              I
currently do this to get a subseries from my local
club races for one, well populated class.

Rob Morton

Pambula NSW Australia

From:
                  [] Thursday, 5 November 2015 6:26
Re: [sailwave] Scoring specific
classes separately within a larger combined class

Hi,
                  Forgot to say how to score classes separately,
whoops.
                  To score combined you are probably using the first
scoring option in Score series. To score
individual classes use the second option and
select the the appropriate field, hopefully the
class field, from the drop down list. Doing this
will RE-SORE the results for each class
independently.
                  If EXTRACTED results are used you could use the
drop-down list box under the first scoring option,
again selecting the appropriate field - probably
the class field.
                  Kind regards,
                  Huw

                    On 04/11/2015 19:19, Huw

Pearce wrote:

Hi,
                    Short answer yes. You need to read the SI's
carefully as to what they say about scoring the
combined classes and the classes individually.
Do the SI’s say the results of the separate
classes will be re-scored or the results
extracted from the combined results? Why do I
ask this question?
                    It is possible if the classes are re-scored that
a boat will be placed above another boat
compared to the overall standings in the
combined class. This due to the relative
finishing places in the combined class being
different to the individual class. How do I
know? It has happened to me on a couple of
occasions and it can get very heated, especially
if junior classes and parents get involved.
                    If the SI's say nothing then they, in my
opinion, need to be amended to state exactly
what is intended.
                    Kind regards,
                    Huw

On 04/11/2015 17:38,
[sailwave] wrote:

                        Is there an easy way of scoring two or more
classes as one combined class then score
them again as separate classes?

                                This

email has been checked for viruses
by Avast antivirus software.

                                [www.avast.com](https://www.avast.com/antivirus)

                            This

email has been checked for viruses by
Avast antivirus software.

                            [www.avast.com](https://www.avast.com/antivirus)

This email has been checked for
viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

www.avast.com

sailwave@yahoogroups.commailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
**To:**sailwave@yahoogroups.com
**Subject:**nellie150549@yahoo.com

nellie150549 · 5 November 2015 17:38

Thanks Huw, The combined results will show the order in which all boats crossed the finish line irrespective of class, and prizes will be awarded accordingly. Based on this master record of finishing order each class will then be re-scored as if the other classes did not exist, and more prizes awarded. Does that help clarify the query.

EGDOUGALL · 5 November 2015 17:46

I have seen interesting results develop when scores like DNF, DSQ that are based on the number of entries are scored in a large group and then a sub set as entries are different. This could impact series scored.

You need to clear on how these situations will be handled

···

On Nov 5, 2015 12:39 PM, “nellie150549@yahoo.com [sailwave]” sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Thanks Huw, The combined results will show the order in which all boats crossed the finish line irrespective of class, and prizes will be awarded accordingly. Based on this master record of finishing order each class will then be re-scored as if the other classes did not exist, and more prizes awarded. Does that help clarify the query.

Huw2 · 5 November 2015 17:52

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. It does clarify what you are after. So when

scoring series:

Use first option when scoring everyone together

    use second option when scoring the two classes separately

using the appropriate field - possibly Class
Kind regards,

Huw

···

On 05/11/2015 17:38,
[sailwave] wrote:

nellie150549@yahoo.com

          Thanks Huw,  The combined results will show the order in
which all boats crossed the finish line irrespective of
class, and prizes will be awarded accordingly. Based on
this master record of finishing order each class will then
be re-scored as if the other classes did not exist, and
more prizes awarded. Does that help clarify the query.

This email has been checked for
viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

www.avast.com

Art_Engel2 · 6 November 2015 02:34

Just to be clear:

There are two ways to get what you want.

For both, start by putting all boats into two classes - "A" and "B" for
example.

OPTION 1. Under the "Score series" button you have two options - either
score all as one group or score by class/fleet. To get what you want:

a. Score and publish using the first option ("Score all competitors in
one group"; make sure "Sort results by field after scoring" is NOT
checked). This puts all the boats into one big class.

b. Score and publish a second time using the second option ("Score
groups of competitors separately"), using whatever field you've
differentiated them with (I'm calling them classes). This puts the boats
into your two separate classes.

The end result is two separate HTML files with the separate results for
the two methods of scoring. The second option scores each class
separately as if the boats in the other class "did not exist" - which is
what you say you want.

OPTION 2. Another method is to use aliases.

For each boat, create an alias and assign the aliased boat to a new
class, "AB" for example. Now use the second scoring option ("Score
groups of competitors separately"). You will get three classes of boats
- the "A" class, the "B" class and the "AB" class (you can sort the
order in which the classes are shown in the published HTML file in the
Publish options). [You can also initially put all boats into one class
and then create aliases for the two separate classes - 6 of one, half
dozen of the other.]

To use aliases you need to enable under "Setup|User interface" so the
alias options show up.

The biggest difference using aliases is that you can have both sets of
results on a single HTML page (or not). [The other difference is that if
you change the finishes input you only need to press the "Rescore"
button whereas with the other method you'll need to press the "Score
series" button and pick the appropriate options to score and publish
twice.] Personally, I prefer the aliases method even though it takes
more time and attention to set up because then publishing results at the
end is less subject to user-error. You can generate separately like
under the first option by picking which classes to publish under the
Publish options, so the second option can do everything the first option
can do plus more.

Art

···

On 11/5/2015 9:38 AM, nellie150549@yahoo.com [sailwave] wrote:

Thanks Huw, The combined results will show the order in which all
boats crossed the finish line irrespective of class, and prizes will
be awarded accordingly. Based on this master record of finishing
order each class will then be re-scored as if the other classes did
not exist, and more prizes awarded. Does that help clarify the
query.