I’m looking into the use of SW but want to see if any other SW User has set up for the following typical season for our club.
The Club sails a number of classes that have their own discrete pointscore and championship series across the season (very similar approach to all classes). I would anticipate to have a *.blw file for each class, each season, is this correct?
The typical season has non-points (sometimes used for determining starting handicaps), general points races (not assigned to a perpetual trophy or championship series), trophy races (with points but not part of a championship series), and championship series (e.g. a state championship and a club championship made up of say 4 races each, again all are points races, and may also have individual races with named perpetual trophies). *Note: we sail “state” championships as we’re the only official club for some of the classes we sail, so they just form part of our season. *To complicate matters, the timing isn’t simply sail all non-points, then all points races, then the Club championship then the State Championship, there may be races spread out everywhere.
The majority of races are “scratch” starts, but some are “pursuit” starts.
The corrected time results in each class for all points races count towards an aggregate points trophy.
Each class also has a “most fastest times” trophy.
In the past I have just set up the whole season as a table in Excel with each race with several rows (one row recorded finish time, one calculated elapsed time, one ranked according to elapsed time and finally one to assign points according to place), and each entered boat as a column. The corrected times sat off as a similar table alongside. In a set row on each race there was some reference data to generate championship tables as required. Would the same thinking apply in SW? Or do I need a number of series to be combined externally to get where I want?
Sat here in sunny but cold Largs, Scotland with Jon where we are
doing scoring for 2013 RYA Youth Nationals and we are discussing
your email and the spreadsheet you sent Jon.
With regard to your points below:
I would go with one Sailwave for for each season and it could
have all the classes in the file. If different classes/groups of
competitors need different scoring profiles this can be set up
for each class/group. For example I have used the different
scoring profiles to score all dinghies using the RYA Portsmouth
rating system and all multihulls using SCHRS, both using Low
Points scoring. I then had another two scoring profiles using
High Points scoring.
This is the area that Sailwave is currently unable to deal
with, i.e . apply a scoring profile to a selection of
races out of the total pool. This what Jon and I are discussing;
I have wanted this functionality for many years.
Sailwave cannot currently calculate Pursuit/Rabbit start
times, but the results could be entered as finish positions for
the pursuit/rabbit starts just need to set in the pursuit/rabbit
race the race properties that the results are finish positions
not finish times or elapsed times.
My interpretation is that this comes back back to Point 2, i.e .
being able to select which races are to be used for producing
the aggregate series overall results.
Sorry don’t understand what you mean by 'most fastest times ',
could you explain?
Look forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards,
Huw
···
On 03/04/2013 03:10, skiffiemark18
wrote:
Hi SW Users,
I'm looking into the use of SW but want to see if any
other SW User has set up for the following typical season
for our club.
The Club sails a number of classes that have their
own discrete pointscore and championship series across
the season (very similar approach to all classes). ___ I
would anticipate to have a *.blw file for each
class, each season, is this correct?___
The typical season has non-points (sometimes used
for determining starting handicaps), general points
races (not assigned to a perpetual trophy or
championship series), trophy races (with points but
not part of a championship series), and championship
series (e.g. a state championship and a club
championship made up of say 4 races each, again all
are points races, and may also have individual races
with named perpetual trophies). * Note: we sail
“state” championships as we’re the only official
club for some of the classes we sail, so they just
form part of our season. * To complicate matters,
the timing isn’t simply sail all non-points, then all
points races, then the Club championship then the
State Championship, there may be races spread out
everywhere.
The majority of races are "scratch" starts, but some
are “pursuit” starts.
The corrected time results in each class for all
points races count towards an aggregate points trophy.
Each class also has a “most fastest times” trophy.
In the past I have just set up the whole season as a
table in Excel with each race with several rows (one row
recorded finish time, one calculated elapsed time, one
ranked according to elapsed time and finally one to
assign points according to place), and each entered boat
as a column. The corrected times sat off as a similar
table alongside. In a set row on each race there was
some reference data to generate championship tables as
required. ;*** Would the same thinking apply in SW?*** Or do I need a number of series to be
combined externally to get where I want?
You are correct that SW cannot calculate pursuit start times, but I have found that with a little effort, it handles pursuit races quite nicely. The trick is to create a separate start (with corresponding "Select competitors" rule) for each distinct rating number entered in the race. Then, the finish times may be entered normally and corrected time is handled properly.
This is not as much work as it may sound and the competitors are automatically sorted into their proper starts. Furthermore, you can create a re-usable regatta template with all possible ratings/starts pre-entered.
Tho' I haven't tried it, I believe such a template can be "Merged" (i.e., imported) into a larger series.
3. Sailwave cannot currently calculate Pursuit/Rabbit start times, but
the results could be entered as finish positions for the
pursuit/rabbit starts just need to set in the pursuit/rabbit race
the race properties that the results are finish positions not finish
times or elapsed times.
Huw, I'm not worried about the actual starting time since we use a simple "minutes" handicap system rather than a rating or time correction factor which uses an e*R to figure out c.
You are correct that SW cannot calculate pursuit start times, but I have found that with a little effort, it handles pursuit races quite nicely. The trick is to create a separate start (with corresponding "Select competitors" rule) for each distinct rating number entered in the race. Then, the finish times may be entered normally and corrected time is handled properly.
This is not as much work as it may sound and the competitors are automatically sorted into their proper starts. Furthermore, you can create a re-usable regatta template with all possible ratings/starts pre-entered.
Tho' I haven't tried it, I believe such a template can be "Merged" (i.e., imported) into a larger series.
> 3. Sailwave cannot currently calculate Pursuit/Rabbit start times, but
> the results could be entered as finish positions for the
> pursuit/rabbit starts just need to set in the pursuit/rabbit race
> the race properties that the results are finish positions not finish
> times or elapsed times.
Sat here in sunny but cold Largs, Scotland with Jon where we are doing
scoring for 2013 RYA Youth Nationals and we are discussing your email
and the spreadsheet you sent Jon.
With regard to your points below:
I would go with one Sailwave for for each season and it could have
all the classes in the file. If different classes/groups of
competitors need different scoring profiles this can be set up for
each class/group. For example I have used the different scoring
profiles to score all dinghies using the RYA Portsmouth rating
system and all multihulls using SCHRS, both using Low Points
scoring. I then had another two scoring profiles using High Points
scoring.
This sounds interesting. I guess I should also define that while we sail two classes on the same day, they are different starts. e.g. 12ft skiffs start at 14:00, the 18ft skiffs start 14:10. Further, the number of races isn’t the same, and the championship races aren’t held at the same time. This was why I was thinking to have different SW series files for each class, unless each class can be handled differently?
This is the area that Sailwave is currently unable to deal with,
/i.e/. apply a scoring profile to a selection of races out of the
total pool. This what Jon and I are discussing; I have wanted this
functionality for many years.
Ok. Good to know others have the same need though!
Sailwave cannot currently calculate Pursuit/Rabbit start times, but
the results could be entered as finish positions for the
pursuit/rabbit starts just need to set in the pursuit/rabbit race
the race properties that the results are finish positions not finish
times or elapsed times.
As mentioned in the reply to kett, that’s ok, calculating the start times are easy enough.
My interpretation is that this comes back back to Point 2, /i.e/.
being able to select which races are to be used for producing the
aggregate series overall results.
Okay, I’ll simulate a season for one class:
Races 1-3 are non-points races, and are used purely to get everyone back into the swing of things and calculate starting handicaps.
Races 4-8 are points races - these races will count towards aggregate (corrected time results) and most fastest (elapsed) overall only (herein, “overall trophies”).
Races 9 & 10 represent the first two races of the state championship, and also count towards overall trophies.
Races 11 & 12 represent the first two races of the club championship, and also count towards overall trophies.
Race 13 is a non-points race, owing to only some boats travelling to national or inter-dominion championships.
Races 14 & 15 are points races - these races will count towards overall trophies only.
Races 16 & 17 represent the last two races of the state championship, and also count towards overall trophies.
Races 18 & 19 represent the last two races of the club championship, and also count towards overall trophies.
So all races apart from the non-points would contribute to the overall trophies, and obviously the 4 races each for the state and club count just towards those tables.
Sorry don’t understand what you mean by ‘/most fastest times/’,
could you explain?
It’s just looking at which boat has recorded the most 1sts (on elapsed time) essentially. I think this is a colonial thing here in Australian skiff clubs
Look forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards,
Huw
On 03/04/2013 03:10, skiffiemark18 wrote:
Hi SW Users,
I’m looking into the use of SW but want to see if any other SW User
has set up for the following typical season for our club.
The Club sails a number of classes that have their own discrete
pointscore and championship series across the season (very similar
approach to all classes). */I would anticipate to have a .blw
file for each class, each season, is this correct?/
The typical season has non-points (sometimes used for determining
starting handicaps), general points races (not assigned to a
perpetual trophy or championship series), trophy races (with
points but not part of a championship series), and championship
series (e.g. a state championship and a club championship made up
of say 4 races each, again all are points races, and may also have
individual races with named perpetual trophies). / Note: we sail
“state” championships as we’re the only official club for some of
the classes we sail, so they just form part of our season. /To
complicate matters, the timing isn’t simply sail all non-points,
then all points races, then the Club championship then the State
Championship, there may be races spread out everywhere.
The majority of races are “scratch” starts, but some are “pursuit”
starts.
The corrected time results in each class for all points races
count towards an aggregate points trophy.
Each class also has a “most fastest times” trophy.
In the past I have just set up the whole season as a table in Excel
with each race with several rows (one row recorded finish time, one
calculated elapsed time, one ranked according to elapsed time and
finally one to assign points according to place), and each entered
boat as a column. The corrected times sat off as a similar table
alongside. In a set row on each race there was some reference data to
generate championship tables as required. ;/Would the same thinking
apply in SW? / Or do I need a number of series to be combined
externally to get where I want?
The non-points races are effectively "zero-weighted", but SW does not allow a race weighting of "0.00" (to maintain high-point compatibility). However, those races can be checked as "Discard me first" and the throwout profile can be set to target those races, as follows:
1,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,4
In the above list, races 1,2,3 & 13 are set as "Discard me first" and thus "targeted" to be thrown out. These are your non-points races.
Beyond this, it appears to me that you will need to maintain separate SW files for the state and club series and periodically import them into the larger series to track the overall results. Unfortunately, I don't believe this method will track accumulated time, only scores/places.
To track time, you would need to invert the process. Enter the results (times) into the overall series and then save a duplicate copy of it. Then, go into the copy and delete all the non-state or club series races, leaving only the desired series races to be scored accordingly. You will have to repeat this process after each state/club series race day.
Of course, if as you say, your different classes have different numbers of races, etc. the only solution may be separate SW files for each class.
Huw - I'll answer in line, please see below! [:)]
--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Huw Pearce <huw.pearce@> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> Sat here in sunny but cold Largs, Scotland with Jon where we are doing
> scoring for 2013 RYA Youth Nationals and we are discussing your email
> and the spreadsheet you sent Jon.
>
> With regard to your points below:
>
> 1. I would go with one Sailwave for for each season and it could have
> all the classes in the file. If different classes/groups of
> competitors need different scoring profiles this can be set up for
> each class/group. For example I have used the different scoring
> profiles to score all dinghies using the RYA Portsmouth rating
> system and all multihulls using SCHRS, both using Low Points
> scoring. I then had another two scoring profiles using High Points
> scoring.
This sounds interesting. I guess I should also define that while we
sail two classes on the same day, they are different starts. e.g. 12ft
skiffs start at 14:00, the 18ft skiffs start 14:10. Further, the number
of races isn't the same, and the championship races aren't held at the
same time. This was why I was thinking to have different SW series
files for each class, unless each class can be handled differently?
> 2. This is the area that Sailwave is currently unable to deal with,
> /i.e/. apply a scoring profile to a selection of races out of the
> total pool. This what Jon and I are discussing; I have wanted this
> functionality for many years.Ok. Good to know others have the
same need though! [;)]
> 3. Sailwave cannot currently calculate Pursuit/Rabbit start times,
but
> the results could be entered as finish positions for the
> pursuit/rabbit starts just need to set in the pursuit/rabbit race
> the race properties that the results are finish positions not
finish
> times or elapsed times.
As mentioned in the reply to kett, that's ok, calculating the start
times are easy enough.
> 4. My interpretation is that this comes back back to Point 2, /i.e/.
> being able to select which races are to be used for producing the
> aggregate series overall results.
Okay, I'll simulate a season for one class:
* Races 1-3 are non-points races, and are used purely to get everyone
back into the swing of things and calculate starting handicaps.
* Races 4-8 are points races - these races will count towards
aggregate (corrected time results) and most fastest (elapsed) overall
only (herein, "overall trophies").
* Races 9 & 10 represent the first two races of the state
championship, and also count towards overall trophies.
* Races 11 & 12 represent the first two races of the club
championship, and also count towards overall trophies.
* Race 13 is a non-points race, owing to only some boats travelling
to national or inter-dominion championships.
* Races 14 & 15 are points races - these races will count towards
overall trophies only.
* Races 16 & 17 represent the last two races of the state
championship, and also count towards overall trophies.
* Races 18 & 19 represent the last two races of the club
championship, and also count towards overall trophies.
So all races apart from the non-points would contribute to the overall
trophies, and obviously the 4 races each for the state and club count
just towards those tables.
> 5. Sorry don't understand what you mean by '/most fastest times/',
> could you explain?
It's just looking at which boat has recorded the most 1sts (on elapsed
time) essentially. I think this is a colonial thing here in Australian
skiff clubs [:D]
>
> Look forward to hearing from you.
> Kind regards,
> Huw
>
> On 03/04/2013 03:10, skiffiemark18 wrote:
> > Hi SW Users,
> >
> > I'm looking into the use of SW but want to see if any other SW User
> > has set up for the following typical season for our club.
> >
> > 1. The Club sails a number of classes that have their own discrete
> > pointscore and championship series across the season (very
similar
> > approach to all classes). */I would anticipate to have a *.blw
> > file for each class, each season, is this correct?/*
> > 2. The typical season has non-points (sometimes used for
determining
> > starting handicaps), general points races (not assigned to a
> > perpetual trophy or championship series), trophy races (with
> > points but not part of a championship series), and championship
> > series (e.g. a state championship and a club championship made
up
> > of say 4 races each, again all are points races, and may also
have
> > individual races with named perpetual trophies). / Note: we sail
> > "state" championships as we're the only official club for some
of
> > the classes we sail, so they just form part of our season. /To
> > complicate matters, the timing isn't simply sail all non-points,
> > then all points races, then the Club championship then the State
> > Championship, there may be races spread out everywhere.
> > 3. The majority of races are "scratch" starts, but some are
"pursuit"
> > starts.
> > 4. The corrected time results in each class for all points races
> > count towards an aggregate points trophy.
> > 5. Each class also has a "most fastest times" trophy.
> >
> > In the past I have just set up the whole season as a table in Excel
> > with each race with several rows (one row recorded finish time, one
> > calculated elapsed time, one ranked according to elapsed time and
> > finally one to assign points according to place), and each entered
> > boat as a column. The corrected times sat off as a similar table
> > alongside. In a set row on each race there was some reference data
to
> > generate championship tables as required. ;*/Would the same
thinking
> > apply in SW? /* Or do I need a number of series to be combined
> > externally to get where I want?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mark.
> >
>
