Is there a way to show the TOT value based on PHRF rating in the entry list, results, etc.? We are currently doing the calculation manually and putting it one of the other unused fields.
Hi Justin,
Welcome to the Sailwave User Group.
When you say TOT value, do you mean the corrected time based on “C= e*A/(B+r)”?
Where C= corrected time
e= elapsed time
r= rating for boat
If so this can be shown in the individual race results by selecting the options tab in the first window that appears when publishing results. Then checking the options you want to appear.
If you want this to appear in the series results it is not possible to include as part of showing scored points view which is what is shown after scoring the series. You can show the corrected times by selecting corrected times from the drop down list of view options in the box between the text point size and the columns button on the tool bar/ icon bar. When you publish the series results with this view on the screen the same information is published to your web browser.
I hope that helps but if not then I am happy to discuss further.
Kind regards,
Huw
Hi:
TOT is the time on time rating (A/(B+r) where A = B+the scratch boat. I can’t find a way to include this in the results. If you start out with the TOD (Time on Distance) rating, there is no way that I can see to include the TOT rating in the results.
John
Hi Jon,
Welcome to Sailwave User Group.
TOT is the time on time rating (A/(B+r) where A = B+the scratch boat. I can’t find a way to include this in the results. If you start out with the TOD (Time on Distance) rating, there is no way that I can see to include the TOT rating in the results.
I am confused as to why you would want ToT when you start with ToD as they are completely different rating calculations. I appreciate there a conversions between the two available. Please could you expand on what you are trying to acheive?
You might be able to do something using the custom rating option. I can’t advise further without understanding what you are trying to achieve.
Kind regards,
Huw
Huw2:
Some PHRF regions use the TOD number as the rating, but use TOT to calculate the results.
Some PHRF areas think that TOD favors the faster boat, while TOT favors different boats in different conditions
When entering the boats, the TOD number is used. In setup, scoring system, you choose TOT using A & B and fill in the A & B numbers, Sailwave calculates the TOT number and uses it to calculate the results.
Sailwave does not have a way to publish the calculated TOT number. If you want to include the rating in the published results, the only option it the TOD rating.
John
That is what consistent with what I have found. Would be a nice feature to add in a future version. Our situation is exactly as you describe. A couple of additional consideration that favors the calculated TOT is that RC does not need to concern themselves with precise calculation of course distance, also when racing in any type of significant current, as is almost always the case where we are, TOT does a better job of factoring that in.
The reason is that we enter the ToD and the A & B factors, Sailwave uses these to calculated the results, and that is great. Would just be really nice to have it show on scratch sheets and results. Again we are accomplishing this by using one of the notes fields, changing the title to ToT, and manually entering the calculated value, and selecting it as one of the fields when we publish.
Justin.
Hi Jon,
Thank you for your explanation and I now understand.
competitor rating [r] used is a ToD value
rating system being used is PHRFTOT where corrected time = elapsed time * A /(B +r)
What is required is a way of showing for a race for a competitor, the value of A/(B+r) in a column?
Unfortunately, this is not possible currently. If it was added it would likely require a new field in Sailwave. I expect Jon will comment at some point.
Kind regards,
Huw
Hi - I have been following the conversation.
I realise this is not an automatic solution but as A/(B+r) is not going to change you could rename a column such as Bow number to ToT and just enter this into this field for each of the competitors.
You could automate this with an app that used the windows messaging if you really wanted to. It really depends how often you do it. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood something - Let me know Jon
Jon:
Justin started this conversation, by wanting to print the TOT number.
Sailwave calculates the Elapsed time and allows us to print it, Sailwave calculates the corrected time and allows us to print it. Sailwave calculates BCR, BCE and average speed and allows us to print this.
Sailwave calculates the TOT rating and uses it to calculate the results, but Sailwave does NOT allow us to print it. Would it be a lot of work to program Sailwave to print this?
There are solutions that involve using other software to calculate and print the TOT rating, but why should users need to use other software.
Sailwave calculates the TOT rating and therefore users should be able to print it if they want to.
John
Hi Jon,
Sorry technically Sailwave does not calculate ToT rating.
CT = ET * A / (B+r)
Sailwave evaluates the equation according to standard mathematical process to produce the corrected time. Nowhere, to best of my knowledge but willing to be corrected, does Sailwave explicitly calculate a value equivalent to A / (B+r).
Question - how widely used is the ToD rating used but with the ToT calculation for corrected time?
Kind regards,
Huw
Huw2:
Any PHRF area that uses Time on Time to score races uses the TOD to TOT formula to calculate Corrected time.
US Sailing lists TOD ratings for boats in all of the PHRF areas in the US and Canada. They do not list TOT rating because different PHRF areas use different formulas to convert from TOD to TOT.
The problem with TOD is that it tends to favor the fastest boat. Another problem is getting the correct distance, most areas use straight line distance, but the boats do not sail straight line distance, every boat will sail a different distance, so an average or straight line distance is used. TOT uses the actual time that each boat sailed in calculating the corrected time.
“How widely used is the TOD system used but with the TOT calculation for corrected time.”
I have no idea how many PHRF areas use TOT, but they all use TOD to get the TOT number.
PHRF Lake Ontario which has both Canadian and US clubs used TOD to calculate the TOT number.
If Sailwave can calculate and print BCR, BCE and Average speed, why can it not produce and print TOT.
My original answer was in response to Justin’s question. I have been scoring races for many years using a number of different software programs, starting in DOS. I like Sailwave because it is Free, easy to use and it works. Personally, I would not print the TOT number when I publish results, but Justin wants to and wants to know why Sailwave can not do this.
John
Hi John,
Forgive me if I misunderstand but the ToT number that is wanted to be printed is a constant for that competitor not a value that is changing for every result entered. When you say Sailwave calculates and displays the Elapsed Time, Corrected Time and BCR and BCE all of these change after each result is entered. ToT is a constant throughout the series which is why Sailwave doesn’t calculate/display it but there is nothing stopping someone adding it to the Competitor fields and displaying it in the results. The Columns can be renamed so you could rename any that you are not using. Then enter the value there and it will be displayed. You could write a program that reads the rating value and writes the appropriate back into the field of your choice.
Does that help?
Jon
Jon:
NO that does not help.
I am not a programmer, I want sailwave to print a number that it uses to calculate the TOT results. If it calculates ET, CT, BCR, BCE and average speed and allows the value to be printed in the published results, it should be able to print the TOT value.
TOD is a constant thought the series, but Sailwave allows it to be printed, why not TOT?
Yachtscoring.com displays both TOT and TOD ratings in the results eg: 120 / 0.9701. This allows the competitor to double check that the correct rating is being used. In Sailwave, if the wrong TOD to TOT formula is entered, the competitors have no way of checking that the correct rating was used, unless they work out their own results to double check.
John
Hi John,
As I mentioned earlier All the values ET, CT, BCR, BCE change for each result entry so it is necessary for Sailwave to calculate them.
If for ToT C=e*A/(B+r) where A, B and r are fixed for a series for that competitor then this is equivalent of the TCF where A/(B+r) is the TCF rating so why not use TCF and enter the rating as the TCF, the rating displayed will then be the value you want to display.
Of course, if you would like something different I’m more than happy to quote you for a custom version and I promise the rates will be half the price of the Yachtscoring
Jon
Jon:
After all of these comments, I figured an easy way for me to do this. Rather than calcualte the TOD for around 50 boats, I will do it in excel.
I use excell to get my registration file. I just add another column and call it TOD, type in the formula with a link to the TOT, TOD is now shown. Copy and past into the other boats. I now have both TOT and TOD. Very simple and easy to do.
I started this to try to help Justin who asked the original question. So Justin if you have Excell or one of the Free spreadsheet programs, then it is easy to do with minimum effort.
Personally, I think that printing the TOT will tend to confuse the competitors rather than help them. I would recommend that if you want to print the TOT, that you also print the TOD.
John
Thank you John. Again it is not the hardest thing to do, and it is exactly what we are doing now. Did not realize that it would be a complex request, just figured that since SailWave is doing the math anyway, it would be easy enough for them to add it as a read-only column in some future release.
We do show both numbers.
Justin.