I have a situation where a Sailor had 2 penalties in a single race (not a good Day)… the SI’s indicate that a Penalty will be accepted and the boat concerned would drop 2 places in the result, or not greater than the number of boats +1
in a single race (not a good Day)… the SI’s indicate
that a Penalty will be accepted and the boat concerned
would drop 2 places in the result, or not greater than
the number of boats +1
I have a situation where a Sailor had 2 penalties in a single race (not a good Day)… the SI’s indicate that a Penalty will be accepted and the boat concerned would drop 2 places in the result, or not greater than the number of boats +1
2 penalties in a single race (not a good
Day)… the SI’s indicate that a Penalty
will be accepted and the boat concerned
would drop 2 places in the result, or not
greater than the number of boats +1
The race score for a boat that takes a Scoring Penalty shall be
the score she would have received without that penalty, made
worse by the number of places stated in the sailing instructions.
When the sailing instructions do not state the number of places,
the penalty shall be 20% of the score for Did Not Finish,
rounded to the nearest whole number (0.5 rounded upward).
The scores of other boats shall not be changed; therefore, two
boats may receive the same score. However, the penalty shall
not cause the boat’s score to be worse than the score for Did
Not Finish.
In my opinion this is points because it specifies the race score for a boat
But hopefully we know what they intend. It is the points equivalent of the boat finishing two places later.
2 penalties in a single race (not a good
Day)… the SI’s indicate that a Penalty
will be accepted and the boat concerned
would drop 2 places in the result, or not
greater than the number of boats +1
The race score for a boat that takes a Scoring Penalty shall be the score she would have received without that penalty, made worse by the number of places stated in the sailing instructions. When the sailing instructions do not state the number of places, the penalty shall be 20% of the score for Did Not Finish, rounded to the nearest whole number (0.5 rounded upward). The scores of other boats shall not be changed; therefore, two boats may receive the same score. However, the penalty shall not cause the boat’s score to be worse than the score for Did Not Finish.
In my opinion this is points because it specifies the race score for a boat
But hopefully we know what they intend. It is the points equivalent of the boat finishing two places later.
I have a situation where a Sailor had 2 penalties in a single race (not a good Day)… the SI’s indicate that a Penalty will be accepted and the boat concerned would drop 2 places in the result, or not greater than the number of boats +1
I am still slightly uncertain, surely a 2 place penalty is the same as two points penalty.
And when this happens in my example if i add a 2 point/place penalty to someone who was already 4th he goes to 6th along with another boat, and i do not get the same issue as reported by a previous post, indicating that the result would be x.5 each. Is this because in my Scoring set up i have scores Rounded to 0 decimal points. And does this make a huge difference?
Hi Anne -perhaps you could give me an example. If 2 boats are 7th place, then they will get 7.5 points each. But without more information I don’t know how you got 2 boats in the same place. Jon
that takes a Scoring Penalty shall be the score
she would have received without that penalty,
made worse by the number of places stated in the
sailing instructions. When the sailing
instructions do not state the number of places,
the penalty shall be 20% of the score for Did
Not Finish, rounded to the nearest whole number
(0.5 rounded upward). The scores of other boats
shall not be changed; therefore, two boats may
receive the same score. However, the penalty
shall not cause the boat’s score to be worse
than the score for Did Not Finish.
In my opinion this is
points because it specifies the race score for
a boat
But hopefully we know what
they intend. It is the points equivalent of
the boat finishing two places later.
have a situation
where a Sailor had
2 penalties in a
single race (not a
good Day)… the
SI’s indicate that
a Penalty will be
accepted and the
boat concerned
would drop 2
places in the
result, or not
greater than the
number of boats +1
I suspect you are confusing "finishing position" with "place."
Unfortunately, the rulebook uses "finishing place," which might be a bit
confusing.
RRS 44.3(c) contemplates that when you take a "two place" penalty then
the score of the boat will be equal to the score two places worse and
other boats won't change points.
Consider a 5-boat fleet (A-E) with finishing positions of 1-5. B has a
finishing position of 2nd, gets 2 points per the Low Point System
default in the rulebook and gets a "place" of 2nd. With a "two places"
penalty she would have a score equal to that for a boat in 4th "place,"
which in the low point system would be 4 points. So, you would have two
boats with 4 points - B & D. The places would be A - 1st/1 point, C -
2nd, 3 points, tied for 3d, B & D, 4 points each, E - 5th, 5 points.
If you were to give B a "finishing position" of 4th (i.e., editing the
result directly) then you'd wind up with two boats with a finishing
position of 4th so they'd be tied for the position and would share the
points for 3rd and 4th - each would get 3.5 points. Perhaps that is what
you did.
Another potential problem place is when you define the penalty code. The
default penalties are generally set correctly but I believe what you
describe would happen if the box "This is a code where rule A6b applies
(other boats scores are not changed)" is unchecked under Scoring
System>Scoring codes|Edit|Properties. [Rule A6b became A6.2 a few
rulebooks back, it might have an updated name in more recent versions of
Sailwave, I use 2.9.7.] The box correctly reflects the principle at
issue but might be slightly misnamed as for a scoring penalty the
principle applies from RRS 44.3(c) and not A6.2 (which applies to
redress only). Sailwave is very powerful and allows you to do stuff
contrary to the rulebook if your NOR and SIs so define BUT that means
you can unintentionally do stuff contrary the rulebook when you don't
intend to if you aren't careful.
You can always get specific help about the settings in your BLW file if
you attach your BLW file to your message.
Hope that helps to explain some of what might be going on for you.
Art
···
On 9/12/2017 5:09 AM, Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
Hi Anne -perhaps you could give me an example. If 2 boats are 7th place,
then they will get 7.5 points each. But without more information I don't
know how you got 2 boats in the same place. Jon
The race score for a boat that takes a Scoring Penalty shall be the score
she would have received without that penalty, made worse by the number of
places stated in the sailing instructions. When the sailing instructions do
not state the number of places, the penalty shall be 20% of the score for
Did Not Finish, rounded to the nearest whole number (0.5 rounded upward).
The scores of other boats shall not be changed; therefore, two boats may
receive the same score. However, the penalty shall not cause the boat�s
score to be worse than the score for Did Not Finish.
In my opinion this is points because it specifies the race score for a boat
But hopefully we know what they intend. It is the points equivalent of
the boat finishing two places later.
I have a situation where a Sailor had 2 penalties in a single race (not a
good Day)... the SI's indicate that a Penalty will be accepted and the boat
concerned would drop 2 places in the result, or not greater than the number
of boats +1
Looking at the codes SCP appears to be the one linked to rule 44.3(c)
which are the circumstances for this issue but the systems just forces in a
one place drop.....
What have i not done? i cannot seem to find another code to use. I could
use RDG but this was not a Redress situation...
I suspect you are confusing "finishing position" with "place."
Unfortunately, the rulebook uses "finishing place," which might be a bit
confusing.
RRS 44.3(c) contemplates that when you take a "two place" penalty then the
score of the boat will be equal to the score two places worse and other
boats won't change points.
Consider a 5-boat fleet (A-E) with finishing positions of 1-5. B has a
finishing position of 2nd, gets 2 points per the Low Point System default in
the rulebook and gets a "place" of 2nd. With a "two places"
penalty she would have a score equal to that for a boat in 4th "place,"
which in the low point system would be 4 points. So, you would have two
boats with 4 points - B & D. The places would be A - 1st/1 point, C - 2nd, 3
points, tied for 3d, B & D, 4 points each, E - 5th, 5 points.
If you were to give B a "finishing position" of 4th (i.e., editing the
result directly) then you'd wind up with two boats with a finishing position
of 4th so they'd be tied for the position and would share the points for 3rd
and 4th - each would get 3.5 points. Perhaps that is what you did.
Another potential problem place is when you define the penalty code. The
default penalties are generally set correctly but I believe what you
describe would happen if the box "This is a code where rule A6b applies
(other boats scores are not changed)" is unchecked under Scoring
System>Scoring codes|Edit|Properties. [Rule A6b became A6.2 a few
rulebooks back, it might have an updated name in more recent versions of
Sailwave, I use 2.9.7.] The box correctly reflects the principle at issue
but might be slightly misnamed as for a scoring penalty the principle
applies from RRS 44.3(c) and not A6.2 (which applies to redress only).
Sailwave is very powerful and allows you to do stuff contrary to the
rulebook if your NOR and SIs so define BUT that means you can
unintentionally do stuff contrary the rulebook when you don't intend to if
you aren't careful.
You can always get specific help about the settings in your BLW file if you
attach your BLW file to your message.
Hope that helps to explain some of what might be going on for you.
Art
On 9/12/2017 5:09 AM, Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
Hi Anne -perhaps you could give me an example. If 2 boats are 7th
place, then they will get 7.5 points each. But without more
information I don't know how you got 2 boats in the same place. Jon
The race score for a boat that takes a Scoring Penalty shall be the
score she would have received without that penalty, made worse by the
number of places stated in the sailing instructions. When the sailing
instructions do not state the number of places, the penalty shall be
20% of the score for Did Not Finish, rounded to the nearest whole number
(0.5 rounded upward).
The scores of other boats shall not be changed; therefore, two boats
may receive the same score. However, the penalty shall not cause the
boat's score to be worse than the score for Did Not Finish.
In my opinion this is points because it specifies the race score for
a boat
But hopefully we know what they intend. It is the points equivalent
of the boat finishing two places later.
I have a situation where a Sailor had 2 penalties in a single race
(not a good Day)... the SI's indicate that a Penalty will be accepted
and the boat concerned would drop 2 places in the result, or not
greater than the number of boats +1
Looking at the codes SCP appears to be the one linked to rule 44.3(c)
which are the circumstances for this issue but the systems just
forces in a one place drop.....
What have i not done? i cannot seem to find another code to use. I
could use RDG but this was not a Redress situation...
