Jon,
I have a feature request, which I concede may be difficult to implement. I would like the ability to apply an elapsed time adjustment - penalty OR credit - in a redress-type format. One work-around is the aggregate time function (add a dummy race called "time adj", etc.), however, this method cannot handle a time CREDIT (negative time entry). Any ideas?
Thanks,
Kett Cummins
Hi Kett,
So what you are requesting is a time penalty that is applied on a single race rather like the DPI code but you enter a time (+ or -) and this is added to their time for the race.
Is this time added to their true time or to their corrected time?
Jon
On 29 November 2012 15:30, kett63 kett@cumminsnola.com wrote:
Jon,
I have a feature request, which I concede may be difficult to implement. I would like the ability to apply an elapsed time adjustment - penalty OR credit - in a redress-type format. One work-around is the aggregate time function (add a dummy race called “time adj”, etc.), however, this method cannot handle a time CREDIT (negative time entry). Any ideas?
Thanks,
Kett Cummins
–
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”
Yes - There are some other good responses, but here's what I am thinking...
1) Our club has a unique distance race (it's a year older than the America's Cup, so cut us some slack!) which traverses two draw bridges and we must make allowance (via elapsed time credit) for any delay at the bridges.
2) OCS in a distance race is often a 1- or 2-hour penalty added to elapsed time.
3) If you were to stand-by a disabled boat until the CG arrives, you might receive redress in the form of an elapsed time credit.
I agree that the method of presentation in the results is tricky. For example #2, just "OCS" might be sufficient as the time penalty is specified in the SIs. In example #3, you might want to actually show the time value of the redress (e.g., "RDGe -1:45:00").
Example #1 is a different animal. The best solution here might be to use the Edit race>Starts>Edit>Accumulated elapsed time function, except that the Edit result>Result window must be modified to allow "negative" times, or credits. Thus the bridge delays could be entered and published as a separate "Race" column, with elapsed times of zero or less (time credit) to be aggregated to the actual race timing.
Thanks for your consideration!
Kett
--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Jon Eskdale <jon@...> wrote:
Hi Kett,
So what you are requesting is a time penalty that is applied on a single
race rather like the DPI code but you enter a time (+ or -) and this is
added to their time for the race.Is this time added to their true time or to their corrected time?
Jon
On 29 November 2012 15:30, kett63 <kett@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Jon,
>
> I have a feature request, which I concede may be difficult to implement. I
> would like the ability to apply an elapsed time adjustment - penalty OR
> credit - in a redress-type format. One work-around is the aggregate time
> function (add a dummy race called "time adj", etc.), however, this method
> cannot handle a time CREDIT (negative time entry). Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Kett Cummins
>
>
>--
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype "eskdale"
I've gone back to Kett's original couple of messages. Since you can manually adjust an elapsed time (and say in the notes for that race "2 minutes subtracted from the elapsed time for #3412") I don't see a change as a high priority (if you enter finish times then the finish time will be unchanged and the new elapsed time will be shown with the corrected time based on the new elapsed time when you rescore, which is what you want). In fact, I'm not sure I see it as any priority.
The "problem" as I see it is that there should be a scoring code (RDG) by the result but there wouldn't be. I guess you could define a scoring code that does nothing. However, the scoring code normally replaces the elapsed time so the changed elapsed time wouldn't be shown. I don't see any way to both have a scoring code of RDG and a changed elapsed time with the current format in which the scoring codes replace the elapsed time in published results. So, I don't think that adding this into a RDG code would solve the actual "problem." [Locally, we use finish times off the clock. But, if you were to enter elapsed times as finish times for all boats then you could display both finish times and elapsed times and the result would be that both the original elapsed and new elapsed times would be shown. However, I would guess the majority of users use real finish times off a clock (that is certainly true in the USA).]
TWO COMMENTS on the issue of RDG
1. There are probably 15 or 20 possible ways to grant redress. As currently implemented, each would require a separate scoring code. A better way to do this (which should have been done in the beginning and may be too difficult to implement now) would be for the RDG code to be built into the program instead of being customizable. Then, when the code was selected for an individual competitor a pop-up window would be displayed and allow defining the particular redress for that result only. Each grant of redress by a protest committee is potentially unique (since it isn't defined in the rules) so it would make sense to have a pop-up for customization.
[A problem with creating a new scoring code for each grant of redress is that data-entry folks usually aren't really competent to do that (it is too much like programming rather than data entry) whereas they certainly would be competent to pick from among the various options presented on a pop-up window.]
On that window should probably be:
1. Average of points for races (choice of all before, all but this one or just specified races) (choice of include discards or not)
2. Average of places for races (choice of all before, all but this one or just specified races) (choice of include discards or not) with points to be determined based on place [to allow for other scoring systems than the default Low-Point system]
3. Fixed assigned points
4. Add or subtract fixed number of points or places
5. Add or subtract percentage points or percentage places
6. Add or subtract time to elapsed time [problem re display of code as mentioned above]
There would be a check box to say move other boats or not, which would then apply to all those options.
Two options (average of points for races before and average of points for all races but this one) probably account for at least 80% of all redress. For those options the modifiable scoring codes make sense. But, the other times a pop-up window would make more sense in terms of usability.
2. I think it would make sense for each scoring code to have a "published code" option. The default would be the same as the code but you could change what is published. Personally, I want all redress to be shown as "RDG" when published, to be consistent with what the rulebook requires (pre-2009 the abbreviations were suggestions, not requirements). Now, I am putting all "published" HTML pages through a post-processor before printing or publishing to the internet to make all of the scoring codes consistent with the rulebook (we could change the scoring codes in our SIs but would prefer to stay with the rulebook instead). Such an option would make that post-processing of scoring codes unnecessary.
Art
On 11/30/2012 8:55 AM, kett63 wrote:
Yes - There are some other good responses, but here's what I am thinking...
1) Our club has a unique distance race (it's a year older than the America's Cup, so cut us some slack!) which traverses two draw bridges and we must make allowance (via elapsed time credit) for any delay at the bridges.
2) OCS in a distance race is often a 1- or 2-hour penalty added to elapsed time.
3) If you were to stand-by a disabled boat until the CG arrives, you might receive redress in the form of an elapsed time credit.
I agree that the method of presentation in the results is tricky. For example #2, just "OCS" might be sufficient as the time penalty is specified in the SIs. In example #3, you might want to actually show the time value of the redress (e.g., "RDGe -1:45:00").
Example #1 is a different animal. The best solution here might be to use the Edit race>Starts>Edit>Accumulated elapsed time function, except that the Edit result>Result window must be modified to allow "negative" times, or credits. Thus the bridge delays could be entered and published as a separate "Race" column, with elapsed times of zero or less (time credit) to be aggregated to the actual race timing.
Thanks for your consideration!
Kett
--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Jon Eskdale<jon@...> wrote:
Hi Kett,
So what you are requesting is a time penalty that is applied on a single
race rather like the DPI code but you enter a time (+ or -) and this is
added to their time for the race.Is this time added to their true time or to their corrected time?
Jon
On 29 November 2012 15:30, kett63<kett@...> wrote:
**
Jon,
I have a feature request, which I concede may be difficult to implement. I
would like the ability to apply an elapsed time adjustment - penalty OR
credit - in a redress-type format. One work-around is the aggregate time
function (add a dummy race called "time adj", etc.), however, this method
cannot handle a time CREDIT (negative time entry). Any ideas?Thanks,
Kett Cummins--
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype "eskdale"------------------------------------
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I’m very late to add to this conversation, but the ability to set up a penalty based on elapsed time + x% would be really useful for one of our events which usually has around 250 entrants, a heavy tide and high probability of OCS boats. There are 25 starts on two lines so the SI’s allow for an OCS boat to take a time penalty based on elapsed time … up until now, we have been manually calculating the adjusted elapsed time, so to have the ability to apply a time penalty would be extremely useful to us. If that’s already been designed in, do please let me know how to apply that!