The race penalties I have applied have been to PHRF Time on Distance, which you rightly observe is the same if you apply to elapsed or corrected. You do raise an interesting point regarding the fairness of applying the penalty to the elapsed or corrected time.
However, firstly consider that the competitor was OCS at the start, the Race Committee signaled the OCS and the competitor failed to return, the Race Committee likely hailed their sail number on the radio and the competitor failed to return. In most races they would be scored OCS and not get a result.
The intent is to avoid boats in a long distance offshore race from sailing from say Los Angeles to Hawaii, or Sydney to Hobart, to discover they were over the line. Generally the penalty is designed to be large enough to encourage a boat to return and restart. Fairness is not usually a consideration, the boat was over the line they didn’t come back, they should really be out of the race.
Therefore adding it to elapsed is fine.
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
···
From: kett63
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:18 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Time corrections on corrected times
I confess that I’ve lost sleep over this!!! Below, Mark indicates that he adds time penalties to elapsed time, while Andrew adds to corrected time. Which is right?
Firstly, in the case of ToD scoring, it makes no difference, as the rating correction is based solely on race distance. This distinction applies ONLY to ToT scoring. Having established that…
Presumably, the intent is to penalize boats equally, regardless of rating. Thus, each boat’s time must first be “equalized”, using the rating system, before a consistent penalty can be applied. In other words, penalty time should be added to corrected time, NOT elapsed time. For example, a time penalty added to elapsed time under IRC will penalize faster boats more than slower boats.
On the other hand, if the intent is to adjust for a quantifiable delay or redress, then the time adjustment should be applied to elapsed time.
Thus, it appears that Mark’s time penalty is incorrectly applied to elapsed time - if he’s using ToT!
The salient point here is that the “Accumulated elapsed time” function is limited to elapsed time and, thus, the proposed work-around will not work for ToT scoring systems which require corrected time adjustments, such as Andrew’s.
Whew!!! I need some sleep! …kett
— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, “S. Mark Townsend” <s_mark_townsend@…> wrote:
I have had similar problems in scoring an offshore race when time penalties are used for OCS, SCP. OCS is a penalty of 30 minutes added to elapsed time, a scoring penalty is 60 minutes etc.
The work-around using an accumulated time feature, whereby the times for two races are combined and scored together, does work, but it is difficult to setup.
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@…
From: kett63
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:22 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Time corrections on corrected times
I also have the need for a time adjustment scoring code. In one regatta, we must calculate a time credit (negative time adjustment) based on delays incurred at a drawbridge. In another, like Andrew, we add a 1-hour time penalty for OCS. This also seems like a useful feature in certain redress situations.
Presently, there is no scoring code calculation in Sailwave which affects the time - only place or points. There may be a work-around using an accumulated time feature, whereby the times for two (or more?) races are combined and scored together. You would need to setup one race for the actual finish times and a “dummy” race for the time adjustments, but I have not confirmed this. (I seem to recall that this approach cannot handle “negative” time.)
Finally, I note that Andrew is concerned with adjusting corrected times, while my applications affect elapsed times (I think). This must have something to do with ToD vs. ToT, but it will take more brain power to sort-out than I can spare right now!
Cheers,
Kett Cummins
— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, “andrewcburnard” <andrewcburnard@> wrote:
Well the Great Texas 300 is finished and I was able to use Sailwave to score the event, thanks Colin and others for the help. Results are posted at http://www.gt300.com/Home/race-results-2010
I forgot about time corrections on corrected times yikes! how did I forget about that!! eg DNS is +04:00:00 on largest finisher corrected time for that leg. I had to set up a Excel worksheet to calculate the additional elapsed time required to adjust the corrected time to reflect a 4 hour penalty.
Other time corrections are DNF +02:00:00, OCS +00:10:00 and redress for assisting another team.
Now I’m home after a week on the road and have had a chance to look through help. Let me know if this can be done in Sailwave because I could not find it.
thanks again
Andrew
www.gt300.com
