TLE code giving different scoring between Race 1 and Race 2?

We have run two races of a series - in Race 1 TLE has been scored as finishers +2 and in the second TLE scored as finishers +1 . Can’t find any issues as to why this has happened having checked through all the set up - scoring all set up to treat the same. Any idea as to what the issue might be please?

Hi BurnhamWeek,

If you care to share the file with me I will have a look at it and see if I can spot anything.

Kind regards,

Thank you Huw - getting message that new users can’t attach files?

Hi Annie,
Firstly, in my previous reply I should have welcomed you to the SUG.
If you send an email to, I will take a look.

Kind regards,

Hi SUG Members,

I was sent the Sailwave file in an email and replied with essentially the following.

After inspection I found Sailwave was correct :slight_smile:

The answer to the apparent difference in points for the TLE code in R1 & R2 was because a boat was scored DSQ in R1. A boat scored DSQ is considered to have both started & finished a race.

Kind regards,

I believe you meant to say that a boat was DSQ in R1 but since she had
finished before being DSQed she counted as a finisher.

A boat that does not cross the finish line but is later DSQed anyway
would not be a “finisher” since she did not finish. As a programming
matter, a boat with a finishing time or position should be a “finisher”
even if she later is scored with some other score different from what
her finishing position or corrected time would indicate.

Good sailing,

Hi Art,

Thanks for the clarification. I have learnt something.

Unfortunately, a boat scored DSQ in Sailwave, is by default is considered to have both started and finished a race. There needs to be an alternative DSQ code to be used when a boat starts but does not finish, which would cover the circumstances that appear in this event.

This has been an interesting scenario :slight_smile:

Kind regards,

As I said, as a programming matter any boat that has a finishing
position or finishing time (which of the two will depend on how the race
is set up) should, in theory, rank as a finisher.

You are unlikely to get a DSQ boat that didn’t finish but it can happen.
RRS 62.1(b) has changed so a boat won’t get redress unless the other
boat is “penalized” so a boat that wants redress might protest another
boat even if the other boat did not finish.

I said “in theory” above because starting Jan. 1, 2021 a boat cannot
“finish” unless she has correctly “started.” The pre-2021 rules (going
back at least 3 decades I believe) provided that a boat “finished” when
she crossed the finishing line from the course side. But, in the 2021-24
rules the definition has been changed so that a boat cannot “finish”
unless she also meets the definition of “start.” So, an OCS boat cannot
technically ever finish (meaning that if she weren’t scored OCS she
should be scored DNF!). [I believe World Sailing recognizes this as a mistake in the rules and it is scheduled to be fixed in 2025.]

To be technically accurate then, our SIs (or NoR) ought to relate to
“boats crossing the finishing line in the direction from the course”
rather than “finishers” - on the assumption that we want to use as our
reference boats that sailed the course and crossed the finishing line
(in other words, boats that intended to compete). I think most of us are
prepared to accept “finishers” as a reasonable term despite the problems
with it, though an appeals comm. might have a different opinion.

A couple comments on the original post – in general I don’t like time
limits where TLE would be relevant. Under RRS 35 the default time limit
provision applies to the first boat to start, correctly sail the course
and finish. That adequately handles the situation where the wind is
light. The absolute time limits (where TLE would apply) aren’t usually a
good idea except maybe for week-night racing. They are often justified
by “we want to run subsequent races” but usually the boats you want to
“cut off” are sailing toward the finishing line as fast as they can
anyway so you gain nothing by providing that they aren’t allowed to finish.

Good sailing,