Some classes use TLE (Time Limit Expired) as a scoring abbreviations for boats that are still racing after the finish window expires. The Sunfish class uses TLE and I had a couple interesting scoring situations which might be of interest to you. Below are the 2018 Sunfish Worlds TLE instructions:
15.2 Boats still racing 15 minutes after the first boat sails the course and finishes, and not thereafter retiring, being penalized or given redress, will be scored Time Limit Expired (TLE, see Scoring) without a hearing. This changes RRS 35, A4, A5, and A11.
17.6 A boat scored TLE will be scored points equal to the number of boats finishing within the time limit plus two points, but not worse than DNF. This changes RRS 35, A4, A5 and A11.
The important thing is to make sure that the Sailwave scoring codes properties are configured correctly. It turns out that both the UFD and BFD
scoring codes don’t have the correct property set. It’s easy to change the property by checking the checkbox that “This code implies that the boat finished the race” for both BFD and UFD scoring codes. The TLE points will be incorrect if you don’t do this and you have BFD/UFD results.
In the first race of the event we had two TLE scores. Also, in that race we had two RDG scores for rendering assistance. The jury decided that the one boat would have finished outside the finish window time limit even if she hadn’t rendered assistance and awarded her RDG points equivalent to the TLE points. The other boat would have finished within the time limit and received RDG points based on a mark rounding position.
Because the RDG points affected the TLE points, I needed two RDG scoring codes; one with the boat finished property and one without. I used RDGf and RDGnf.
Interesting and I fully understand why you need the two RDG codes but I just checked Sailwave and both UFD and BFD are configured to be that they did not finish the race, which I would consider to be correct - Do you think I’m wrong?
OCS, BFD and UFD boats are considered finished most of the time. The test is if they meet the definition of finish. Exceptions would be with keelboats if the RC radios the boats and informs them of their UFD/BFD score and the boats stop racing. Same for dinghy fleets when OCS/BFD/UFD boats are notified at the windward mark and pull out of the race. A RET score could be considered as finished if the boat retired after finishing. This retirement is different from an Appendix P2.3 retirement.
The good thing is that Sailwave has the functionality to make it all work.
Interesting and I fully understand why you need the two RDG codes but I just checked Sailwave and both UFD and BFD are configured to be that they did not finish the race, which I would consider to be correct - Do you think I’m wrong?
Some classes use TLE (Time Limit Expired) as a scoring abbreviations for boats that are still racing after the finish window expires. The Sunfish class uses TLE and I had a couple interesting scoring situations which might be of interest to you. Below are the 2018 Sunfish Worlds TLE instructions:
15.2 Boats still racing 15 minutes after the first boat sails the course and finishes, and not thereafter retiring, being penalized or given redress, will be scored Time Limit Expired (TLE, see Scoring) without a hearing. This changes RRS 35, A4, A5, and A11.
17.6 A boat scored TLE will be scored points equal to the number of boats finishing within the time limit plus two points, but not worse than DNF. This changes RRS 35, A4, A5 and A11…
The important thing is to make sure that the Sailwave scoring codes properties are configured correctly. It turns out that both the UFD and BFD
scoring codes don’t have the correct property set. It’s easy to change the property by checking the checkbox that “This code implies that the boat finished the race” for both BFD and UFD scoring codes. The TLE points will be incorrect if you don’t do this and you have BFD/UFD results.
In the first race of the event we had two TLE scores. Also, in that race we had two RDG scores for rendering assistance. The jury decided that the one boat would have finished outside the finish window time limit even if she hadn’t rendered assistance and awarded her RDG points equivalent to the TLE points. The other boat would have finished within the time limit and received RDG points based on a mark rounding position.
Because the RDG points affected the TLE points, I needed two RDG scoring codes; one with the boat finished property and one without. I used RDGf and RDGnf.
Yes - Events I tend to score are either Dingy or Windsurfing and in these, a BFD or UFD boats/boards would not continue the race and would not finish the race.
As you said the good thing is Sailwave allows you to configure it however you wish it to be. The only thing that concerned me was the sentence you wrote " It turns out that both the UFD and BFD scoring codes don’t have the correct property set. " which made me think I had programmed the default incorrectly so I thought while its fresh in my mind I would update the source but I think the default should be left as it currently is.
I’ve just purchased Clarion 11 and have compiled Sailwave with this and we now have a Touch enabled version of Sailwave so if you have a touch screen you can scroll it around using touch. Needs some testing before I release it fully.
did not start correctly and therefore cannot finish correctly!
However, finish definition makes no mention of having started
correctly!
From RRS Definitions:
Start * A boat
starts when, having been entirely on the
pre-start side of the starting line at or
after her starting signal, and having
complied with rule 30.1 if it applies, any
part of her hull, crew or equipment
crosses the starting line in the direction
of the first mark.*
OCS, BFD and UFD boats are considered finished most
of the time. The test is if they meet the definition of
finish. Exceptions would be with keelboats if the RC
radios the boats and informs them of their UFD/BFD score
and the boats stop racing. Same for dinghy fleets when
OCS/BFD/UFD boats are notified at the windward mark and
pull out of the race. A RET score could be considered
as finished if the boat retired after finishing. This
retirement is different from an Appendix P2.3
retirement.
The good thing is that Sailwave has the functionality
why you need the two RDG codes but I
just checked Sailwave and both UFD and
BFD are configured to be that they did
not finish the race, which I would
consider to be correct - Do you think
I’m wrong?
use TLE (Time Limit
Expired) as a scoring
abbreviations for boats
that are still racing
after the finish window
expires. The Sunfish
class uses TLE and I had a
couple interesting scoring
situations which might be
of interest to you. Below
are the 2018 Sunfish
Worlds TLE instructions:
15.2 Boats
still racing 15
minutes after the
first boat sails
the course and
finishes, and not
thereafter
retiring, being
penalized or given
redress, will be
scored Time Limit
Expired (TLE, see
Scoring) without a
hearing. This
changes RRS 35,
A4, A5, and A11.*
17.6 A boat
scored TLE will be
scored points equal
to the number of
boats finishing
within the time
limit plus two
points, but not
worse than DNF.
This changes RRS 35,
A4, A5 and A11…*
The important thing is to
make sure that the Sailwave
scoring codes properties are
configured correctly. It
turns out that both the UFD
and BFD
scoring codes don’t have the
correct property set. It’s
easy to change the property
by checking the checkbox
that * “This code implies
that the boat finished the
race”* for both BFD
and UFD scoring codes. The
TLE points will be incorrect
if you don’t do this and you
have BFD/UFD results.
In the first race of
the event we had two TLE
scores. Also, in that
race we had two RDG scores
for rendering assistance.
The jury decided that the
one boat would have
finished outside the
finish window time limit
even if she hadn’t
rendered assistance and
awarded her RDG points
equivalent to the TLE
points. The other boat
would have finished within
the time limit and
received RDG points based
on a mark rounding
position.
Because the RDG points
affected the TLE points, I
needed two RDG scoring
codes; one with the boat
finished property and one
without. I used RDGf and
RDGnf.
How would a boat/board in your events know that they were OCS, BFD or UFD? I guess that 99% of the OCS, BFD or UFD scored boats wouldn’t know their score until after they finished. Even at the SWC events boats that are OCS/UFD/BFD are not notified at the windward mark. The only time a BFD boat knows that they were BFD if there was a general recall during a black flag start and she was listed on the RC board prior to the restart. (RRS 30.4)
Yes - Events I tend to score are either Dingy or Windsurfing and in these, a BFD or UFD boats/boards would not continue the race and would not finish the race.
As you said the good thing is Sailwave allows you to configure it however you wish it to be. The only thing that concerned me was the sentence you wrote " It turns out that both the UFD and BFD scoring codes don’t have the correct property set. " which made me think I had programmed the default incorrectly so I thought while its fresh in my mind I would update the source but I think the default should be left as it currently is.
I’ve just purchased Clarion 11 and have compiled Sailwave with this and we now have a Touch enabled version of Sailwave so if you have a touch screen you can scroll it around using touch. Needs some testing before I release it fully.
OCS, BFD and UFD boats are considered finished most of the time. The test is if they meet the definition of finish. Exceptions would be with keelboats if the RC radios the boats and informs them of their UFD/BFD score and the boats stop racing. Same for dinghy fleets when OCS/BFD/UFD boats are notified at the windward mark and pull out of the race. A RET score could be considered as finished if the boat retired after finishing. This retirement is different from an Appendix P2.3 retirement.
The good thing is that Sailwave has the functionality to make it all work.
Interesting and I fully understand why you need the two RDG codes but I just checked Sailwave and both UFD and BFD are configured to be that they did not finish the race, which I would consider to be correct - Do you think I’m wrong?
Some classes use TLE (Time Limit Expired) as a scoring abbreviations for boats that are still racing after the finish window expires. The Sunfish class uses TLE and I had a couple interesting scoring situations which might be of interest to you. Below are the 2018 Sunfish Worlds TLE instructions:
15.2 Boats still racing 15 minutes after the first boat sails the course and finishes, and not thereafter retiring, being penalized or given redress, will be scored Time Limit Expired (TLE, see Scoring) without a hearing. This changes RRS 35, A4, A5, and A11.
17.6 A boat scored TLE will be scored points equal to the number of boats finishing within the time limit plus two points, but not worse than DNF. This changes RRS 35, A4, A5 and A11…
The important thing is to make sure that the Sailwave scoring codes properties are configured correctly. It turns out that both the UFD and BFD
scoring codes don’t have the correct property set. It’s easy to change the property by checking the checkbox that “This code implies that the boat finished the race” for both BFD and UFD scoring codes. The TLE points will be incorrect if you don’t do this and you have BFD/UFD results.
In the first race of the event we had two TLE scores. Also, in that race we had two RDG scores for rendering assistance. The jury decided that the one boat would have finished outside the finish window time limit even if she hadn’t rendered assistance and awarded her RDG points equivalent to the TLE points. The other boat would have finished within the time limit and received RDG points based on a mark rounding position.
Because the RDG points affected the TLE points, I needed two RDG scoring codes; one with the boat finished property and one without. I used RDGf and RDGnf.
did not start correctly and therefore cannot finish correctly!
However, finish definition makes no mention of having started
correctly!
From RRS Definitions:
Start * A boat
starts when, having been entirely on the
pre-start side of the starting line at or
after her starting signal, and having
complied with rule 30.1 if it applies, any
part of her hull, crew or equipment
crosses the starting line in the direction
of the first mark.*
On 16/10/2018 17:10, Peter van Muyden > pvanmuyden@gmail.com [sailwave] wrote:
Hi Jon,
OCS, BFD and UFD boats are considered finished most
of the time. The test is if they meet the definition of
finish. Exceptions would be with keelboats if the RC
radios the boats and informs them of their UFD/BFD score
and the boats stop racing. Same for dinghy fleets when
OCS/BFD/UFD boats are notified at the windward mark and
pull out of the race. A RET score could be considered
as finished if the boat retired after finishing. This
retirement is different from an Appendix P2.3
retirement.
The good thing is that Sailwave has the functionality
to make it all work.
Cheers,
Peter
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 8:57 AM Jon > > Eskdale jon@sailwave.com > > [sailwave] <sailwave@yahoogroups.com > > > wrote:
Hi Peter,
Interesting and I fully understand
why you need the two RDG codes but I
just checked Sailwave and both UFD and
BFD are configured to be that they did
not finish the race, which I would
consider to be correct - Do you think
I’m wrong?
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at > > > 15:20, Peter van Muyden pvanmuyden@gmail.com > > > [sailwave] <sailwave@yahoogroups.com > > > > wrote:
Some classes
use TLE (Time Limit
Expired) as a scoring
abbreviations for boats
that are still racing
after the finish window
expires. The Sunfish
class uses TLE and I had a
couple interesting scoring
situations which might be
of interest to you. Below
are the 2018 Sunfish
Worlds TLE instructions:
15.2 Boats
still racing 15
minutes after the
first boat sails
the course and
finishes, and not
thereafter
retiring, being
penalized or given
redress, will be
scored Time Limit
Expired (TLE, see
Scoring) without a
hearing. This
changes RRS 35,
A4, A5, and A11.*
17.6 A boat
scored TLE will be
scored points equal
to the number of
boats finishing
within the time
limit plus two
points, but not
worse than DNF.
This changes RRS 35,
A4, A5 and A11…*
The important thing is to
make sure that the Sailwave
scoring codes properties are
configured correctly. It
turns out that both the UFD
and BFD
scoring codes don’t have the
correct property set. It’s
easy to change the property
by checking the checkbox
that * “This code implies
that the boat finished the
race”* for both BFD
and UFD scoring codes. The
TLE points will be incorrect
if you don’t do this and you
have BFD/UFD results.
In the first race of
the event we had two TLE
scores. Also, in that
race we had two RDG scores
for rendering assistance.
The jury decided that the
one boat would have
finished outside the
finish window time limit
even if she hadn’t
rendered assistance and
awarded her RDG points
equivalent to the TLE
points. The other boat
would have finished within
the time limit and
received RDG points based
on a mark rounding
position.
Because the RDG points
affected the TLE points, I
needed two RDG scoring
codes; one with the boat
finished property and one
without. I used RDGf and
RDGnf.
I confess to not being the correct person to answer that question. As it’s many years now since I’ve raced seriously on the water, but there is an individual recall flag. But what I do know, is what I see on the race sheets where there is a list of OCS’s which have been listed and then crossed out where they have gone back and rounded the ends to clear themselves, and those that are marked as BFD very rarely have a finish position - so many do know. Yes fully agree there are some that think there weren’t OCS when they were but I doubt it is 99%. And then there is the question of if they didn’t start correctly can they be counted as finishing. I’ll leave this to the experts to discuss. All I’m interested in is that Sailwave works correctly. So for the time being I’ll leave it as it is while others discuss it. As you correctly said its very easy for the scorer to change this if they need to.
OCS, BFD & UFD did not start correctly
and therefore cannot finish correctly!
However, finish definition makes no mention
of having started correctly!
From RRS Definitions:
** Start*** A boat starts
when, having been
entirely on the
pre-start side of the
starting line at or
after her starting
signal, and having
complied with rule
30.1 if it applies,
any part of her hull,
crew or equipment
crosses the starting
line in the direction
of the first mark.*
finished most of the time. The test is
if they meet the definition of finish.
Exceptions would be with keelboats if
the RC radios the boats and informs them
of their UFD/BFD score and the boats
stop racing. Same for dinghy fleets
when OCS/BFD/UFD boats are notified at
the windward mark and pull out of the
race. A RET score could be considered
as finished if the boat retired after
finishing. This retirement is different
from an Appendix P2.3 retirement.
fully understand why you
need the two RDG codes
but I just checked
Sailwave and both UFD
and BFD are configured
to be that they did not
finish the race, which I
would consider to be
correct - Do you think
I’m wrong?
classes use
TLE (Time
Limit Expired)
as a scoring
abbreviations
for boats that
are still
racing after
the finish
window
expires. The
Sunfish class
uses TLE and I
had a couple
interesting
scoring
situations
which might be
of interest to
you. Below
are the 2018
Sunfish Worlds
TLE
instructions:
15.2
Boats still
racing 15
minutes after
the first boat
sails the
course and
finishes, and
not thereafter
retiring,
being
penalized or
given redress,
will be scored
Time Limit
Expired (TLE,
see Scoring)
without a
hearing. This
changes RRS
35, A4, A5,
and A11.*
17.6 A
boat scored
TLE will be
scored points
equal to the
number of
boats
finishing
within the
time limit
plus two
points, but
not worse than
DNF. This
changes RRS
35, A4, A5 and
A11…*
The important
thing is to
make sure that
the Sailwave
scoring codes
properties are
configured
correctly. It
turns out that
both the UFD
and BFD
scoring codes
don’t have the
correct
property set.
It’s easy to
change the
property by
checking the
checkbox that
"This code
implies that
the boat
finished the
race"* for
both BFD and
UFD scoring
codes. The
TLE points
will be
incorrect if
you don’t do
this and you
have BFD/UFD
results.
In the
first race of
the event we
had two TLE
scores. Also,
in that race
we had two RDG
scores for
rendering
assistance.
The jury
decided that
the one boat
would have
finished
outside the
finish window
time limit
even if she
hadn’t
rendered
assistance and
awarded her
RDG points
equivalent to
the TLE
points. The
other boat
would have
finished
within the
time limit and
received RDG
points based
on a mark
rounding
position.
Because
the RDG points
affected the
TLE points, I
needed two RDG
scoring codes;
one with the
boat finished
property and
one without.
I used RDGf
and RDGnf.
