Hello,
Within our club we have two fleets fo one Design, Squib and international Dragon.
The fleets are looking for a combined fleet race single event, and are looking ar what handicap system to use for this event.
I cannot find a PY rating for the boats we have, and wondering if the RYC will work? and does anyone have any experience of using a handicap system for this type of event?
thanks
John W
An old py look has
Py
Squib 1108 secondary
Dragon 1011 recorded number
Mike
Apologies typo in subject should have read RYA not RYC
John W
Mike,
Thanks what does the Secondary mean against the Squib PY
John W
Your heading indicates possibly using the NHC system.
Wouldn't straight RYA (boat on boat) rating be better, or do you
want to introduce skipper handicaps? In which case, using NHC, use
the external spreadsheet method, if you use the initial ratings as
given by Mike.
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Rondevlei, South Africa
On 2018-07-24 08:59, [sailwave] wrote:
Hello,
Within our club we have two fleets fo one Design,Squib and international Dragon.
The fleets are looking for a combined fleet racesingle event, and are looking ar what handicap system to
use for this event.
I cannot find a PY rating for the boats we have,and wondering if the RYC will work? and does anyone have
any experience of using a handicap system for this type
of event?
thanks
John W
Virus-free. www.avast.com
Malcolm,
To be honest i am still a novice at dealing with these handicaps.
We introduced the RYS NHC handicap system at the beginning of this year to try and get more of the sailors the opportunity to win something, so within each of the One design fleets we offer a Handicap prize based on overall results over a specific league event, so the usual First past the Post winners cannot be included in the Handicap prizes and to be honest i am nto sure how effective it is.
However this new single event is to create a mixed fleet race of the two one designs, and it has been suggested that the RYA would not be the best handicap rating system to use, and it was recommended i look to PY. but at this stage will it be any different? as we do not have enough time to create individual skipper handicaps so the Dragons will all have one handicap rating and the Squibs a differnt rating… so not sure how that will create any real competitive situation.
With respect to using the external spread sheet, i have never done that so would not be comfortable with that at this stage…
We do have the current ratings for each boat using the RYA, would there be any advantage in being able to convert RYA to PY for each boat???
Thanks
John W
Pretty. Good but not fixed.
The dragon one is only recorded and not as certain.
The definitions should be on the rya py site.
Mike
John,
To clear up confusion - its the RYA Portsmouth Yardstick (PY)
My reference to external refers to the way the SW NHC scoring works
using internal, SW does the calculation internally, but then
ratings must be entered as a fraction, e.g. the 1101 for Dragon
converts to 1000 / 1101 = 0.989
The other SW option is to specify external calculations - ratings
can be entered as PY. SW calls up Excel and displays this on your
PC, to show the results for each race. You don’t have to do
anything in this process - just click Next or Finish.
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Rondevlei, South Africa
On 2018-07-24 10:14, [sailwave] wrote:
Malcolm,
To be honest i am still a novice at dealing with thesehandicaps.
We introduced the RYS NHC handicap system at thebeginning of this year to try and get more of the sailors
the opportunity to win something, so within each of the
One design fleets we offer a Handicap prize based on
overall results over a specific league event, so the usual
First past the Post winners cannot be included in the
Handicap prizes and to be honest i am nto sure how
effective it is.
However this new single event is to create a mixedfleet race of the two one designs, and it has been
suggested that the RYA would not be the best handicap
rating system to use, and it was recommended i look to PY.
but at this stage will it be any different? as we do not
have enough time to create individual skipper handicaps so
the Dragons will all have one handicap rating and the
Squibs a differnt rating… so not sure how that will
create any real competitive situation.
With respect to using the external spread sheet, i havenever done that so would not be comfortable with that at
this stage…
We do have the current ratings for each boat using theRYA, would there be any advantage in being able to convert
RYA to PY for each boat???
Thanks
John W
Virus-free. www.avast.com
Malcolm,
I have a test event set up with both Squibs and Dragons, and the rating is set at RYA Portsmouth,
I input the whole numbers 1029 for Dragons and 1110 for Squibs in the PY column.
And for a test virtual race lasting approx 1 hour i get the Squibs winning over the Dragons by approx 4 mins if i have a race elapse time of approx 1 hour. and i assume i have a Dragon and a squib having the same elapse time, if i then create a race with a Dragon being 2 mins slower than a squib then the results become much closer.
I am not sure if these theoretical results are meaningful, and from your last response, i am not sure if i am using SW correctly.
There si no external option when configuring PY rating, so i assume you are referring to using RYA NHC .
???
Thx
John W
John,
Yes - you are on the right track.
With the given ratings, a Squib is faster than a Dragon.
From c = e*1000/ r : If a Squib finishes a races in 60 minutes, its
corrected time is 58.3 min.
For a Dragon to get that corrected time, its elapsed time must be
c*r / 1000 = 64.7 minutes, i.e. 4.7 minutes later. Any quicker, then
it wins.
Internal / external is with SW NHC scoring.
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Rondevlei, South Africa
On 2018-07-24 15:29, [sailwave] wrote:
Malcolm,
I have a test event set up with both Squibs andDragons, and the rating is set at RYA Portsmouth,
I input the whole numbers 1029 for Dragons and 1110 forSquibs in the PY column.
And for a test virtual race lasting approx 1 hour i getthe Squibs winning over the Dragons by approx 4 mins if i
have a race elapse time of approx 1 hour. and i assume i
have a Dragon and a squib having the same elapse time, if
i then create a race with a Dragon being 2 mins slower
than a squib then the results become much closer.
I am not sure if these theoretical results aremeaningful, and from your last response, i am not sure if
i am using SW correctly.
There si no external option when configuring PY rating,so i assume you are referring to using RYA NHC .
???
Thx
John W
Virus-free. www.avast.com
We have been experimenting with NHC. It seems like you need about 5-8 races for NHC to settle down individual handicaps. For a first series, you can take achieved handicaps and plug them back into initial handicap after said 5-8 races.
All told, it does look like it gives close racing to varying boats; the most consistent boat wins a series.
Conversions from various handicap systems to an NHC number (or pseudo NHC number) can be done. (have about 2200 classes in my database)
On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 5:38 AM ejwjohn@gmail.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Malcolm,
To be honest i am still a novice at dealing with these handicaps.
We introduced the RYS NHC handicap system at the beginning of this year to try and get more of the sailors the opportunity to win something, so within each of the One design fleets we offer a Handicap prize based on overall results over a specific league event, so the usual First past the Post winners cannot be included in the Handicap prizes and to be honest i am nto sure how effective it is.
However this new single event is to create a mixed fleet race of the two one designs, and it has been suggested that the RYA would not be the best handicap rating system to use, and it was recommended i look to PY. but at this stage will it be any different? as we do not have enough time to create individual skipper handicaps so the Dragons will all have one handicap rating and the Squibs a differnt rating… so not sure how that will create any real competitive situation.
With respect to using the external spread sheet, i have never done that so would not be comfortable with that at this stage…
We do have the current ratings for each boat using the RYA, would there be any advantage in being able to convert RYA to PY for each boat???
Thanks
John W
Malcolm,
Thanks for this,
We will see how the event unfolds in a few weeks time.
John W
Kirk,
Interesting observation in regard to taking the end rating after 5 - 8 races.
I will check that out here to see how/if it makes any impact of the results.
Yes i agree that a consistent boat does win series and probably that also includes second, it is in the third place that i am seeing the difference.
JohW
Malcom,
Just taken a look at your formula in more detail i assume your figures are based on times in Decimal not in h:mm:ss
Or have i misinterpreted your message?
thanks
John W
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Rondevlei, South Africa
On 2018-07-24 15:29, [sailwave] wrote:
Malcolm,
I have a test event set up with both Squibs and Dragons, and the rating is set at RYA Portsmouth,
I input the whole numbers 1029 for Dragons and 1110 for Squibs in the PY column.
And for a test virtual race lasting approx 1 hour i get the Squibs winning over the Dragons by approx 4 mins if i have a race elapse time of approx 1 hour. and i assume i have a Dragon and a squib having the same elapse time, if i then create a race with a Dragon being 2 mins slower than a squib then the results become much closer.
I am not sure if these theoretical results are meaningful, and from your last response, i am not sure if i am using SW correctly.
There si no external option when configuring PY rating, so i assume you are referring to using RYA NHC .
???
Thx
John W
Virus-free. www.avast.com
John,
Yes, I just took the figures from Excel - 58.3 min = 58' 18" ; 64.7 min = 64' 42"
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Rondevlei, South Africa
On 2018-07-25 15:28, John Williams ejwjohn@gmail.com [sailwave] wrote:
58.3 min
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