W/L and RLC ratings in one regatta?

We want to use a two number system. Scoring is PHRF ToT and we want to use the W/L rating for those courses and the RLC rating for others. How can we use two different ratings for the boats depending on the courses sailed in a regatta. All RLC is easy, all W/L is easy. We want to allow mixing the courses during the event?

A possible hack might be to use the wind speed function and use the W/L rating as one speed and the RLC rating as another?

Boat Rating would look like this: Crab Crusher 165, 145 (W/L rating, RLC rating)

Not sure how to define the wind speed trigger to use the rating I want.

Help! :slight_smile:

Hi Randy,

Firstly welcome to the Sailwave User Group forum.

You can call the using the Wind Indexed selection of a rating a ‘hack’ but what you are wanting to do is is the same in principle, i.e. wanting to apply a rating based on a condition!

You could define different ratings for different wind speeds for different course configurations and this has been done.

Anyway how to set-up:
Select from ‘Setup’ menu ‘User interface’ and check box alongside ‘Wind indexed ratings’ followed by clicking OK button.

Now click ‘Scoring system’ on toolbar and select the ‘Rating’ tab

I have check USA Portsmouth because wind indexed rating was implemented for this rating system but works with others. Now add the identifiers for your rating selection, in the screen capture I have used yours. Once parameters set on this window click the OK button.

To have Sailwave choose the rating to be used for a race you edit the race information for the race in question.

I have highlighted the box in which you select the rating to be used for this race and selected WL, but if you use the drop down list arrow, all the wind indexed ratings you defined on the ‘Scoring system’ ‘Rating’ tab will appear for you to select from. Whilst on this page you will probably set the the race start time (HHMMSS format) and 'Finishes will be recorded as either finish times or elapsed times.

I hope that all makes sense.
Kind regards,

Thanks! That is where I was going. Questions.
I would like to use PHRF ToT for scoring. If I select Portsmouth I think the system will use the Portsmouth scoring algorithm? I can convert the PHRF numbers to Portsmouth numbers but that will confuse the racers that are used to seeing a PHRF spm rating. When I select wind indexed ratings and PHRF ToT I can select the A & B numbers based on wind index but that assumes the base rating does not change with wind speed?

An ideal system would have W/L and RLC ratings for several different wind ranges as well as ratings for both W/L and RLC courses. (accck!)

W6, W8, W10, W12, W14, W16, W20, R6, R8, R10, R12, R14, R16, R20 would be the course/wind index matrix.

What would the rating window for each boat look like?

120, 100, 80, 75, 70, 67, 65, 110, 105, 100, 97, 95, 92, 90 (W numbers first, R numbers second?)

Getting 14 rating numbers for each boat is a bit of a chore but fairly easy if the boats have ORC certificates.

If I keep it simple it would be W,R for the wind index choices and only two ratings for each boat. When entering multiple ratings is the format 120,100 or “120,100” do I need the quotes to use multiple ratings?

BTW, Andy Barrow and I have been doing SW scoring for many years here at Vallarta Yacht Club. He is my go to guy when I have these middle of the night wacky ideas!


Hi Randy,

Say hi to Andy from me. He and I have exchanged emails on quite a few occasions.

What do you mean base rating does not change? All boats should have a base rating in the rating field and a comma separated list of ratings to match the defined wind ranges. Some of the values in the wind index list my be the same as the default.

An ideal system would have W/L and RLC ratings for several different wind ranges as well as ratings for both W/L and RLC courses. (accck!)

You can do this :slight_smile: I have done it.
You do not need to use quotes around the wind index ratings if you enter them manually, it is just a comma separated list. However, if importing from a CSV file then you will need quotes around the wind index ratings, because by default Sailwave uses a , (comma) to separate different fields. You can change the separator in Global options.

From what I have read the A factor

is merely a coefficient that makes a “nice” looking TCF. Select it so that the TCF for the middle of the fleet is about 1.000. The A coefficient has absolutely no effect on the corrected finish order. Changing it will only affect the various margins.

Here is one for you. In the past someone wanted to have corrected time calculated using both ToT rating and a ToD rating as part of the same equation! It can be done.

I hope I have understood correctly
Kind regards,

USPHRF has selection of coefficients for use in different conditions. Those assume that the boat’s rating does not change based on conditions, the TCF formula changes. (At least that’s how I understand it). If we use wind and course indexed ratings, we can use an A number to make things pretty. Or just use the standard ToT formula and rely on indexed ratings.

At this point it is just a mental exercise to see if I can make it work. There is no way to sell the idea to a bunch of racers that think PHRF ratings are science. Faster boats do better in lighter air because they have more time to save their rating. Smaller boats do better in heavy air because the race is over before they run out of handicap. ToT addresses this to a certain extent but nowhere nearly as well as an indexed scoring system.

We are not going to get casual Club Racers to have their boats measured under ORC so if I go that way the club (or a race sponsor) will have to foot the bill for the certificates. I’ve paid for almost 20 so far just to have numbers to experiment with. I’m a ratings geek.

If I can get the plan to work I’ll do an alternate scoring for the regatta we are running now and share the indexed results with the fleet to get a reaction. I’m hoping it won’t make a big change in rankings but will reduce the spread in corrected times in the results.

We all know that +/- 30 sec mile is normal for a One Design fleet … so getting there and seeing closer results is the goal of every handicapper and scorer.

I’m just having fun at this point!

Hi Randy,
Thanks for feedback.

Have you considered looking at RYA NHC or Irish Sailing ECHO to produce an alternate set of results, using aliases in Sailwave so do not have to re-enter finish sheet data, You can use both in external mode linked to an Excel spreadsheet, included with Sailwave, so you can see all the calculations. You could create your own custom Excel spreadsheet based on your own algorithm for calculating the next race rating. You can use your PHRF ToT base rating as the starting point.

You could use multiple aliases so you can see the effect of different rating systems all from entering one set of finish sheet data. Most I have done is 3 sets of aliases, so 4 different sets of result all scored using a different rating system.

Just an idea.
All best in your journey.
Kind regards,