web based sailwave?

Imported from Yahoo
1

I am constantly asked for Sailwave to be made
available on other platforms and unfortunately because of the original
(bad) choice of dev platform, I can’t do it.

I’m going to have to face up to a rewrite because constant requests are
also being made for a web based platform.

So my thinking is leaning towards just using the web. Which would also
make it available on iPhones etc.

Web based has lots of advantages. automatically render the data as a
website, easily do competitor entry etc.

Any thoughts…?

Colin J

sailwave

2

Colin,

I’m a sailor and a professional programmer who also follows Sailwave peripherally. I agree the idea of a web interface would be a huge benefit on the surface - depending on how you envision the actual web app being available. A couple of issues I see would be:

  1. Where the scorer has no web access - a common situation at many clubs. Thus, if you would do some sort of web app that could be downloaded and installed on the user’s local web server (as well as possibly being available at SailWave.com or some such), then you get around the “offline issue”.

  2. For the online app, you’d have to be able to scale it out to store and retrieve scoring by user/login. The storage and bandwidth requirements would be pretty good for that.

My initial 2 cents… anything I can help or kibitz on, please let me know!

David

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins colin@sailwave.com
To: Sailwave User Group sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:15:32 +0000
Subject: [sailwave] web based sailwave?

I am constantly asked for Sailwave to be made available on other platforms and unfortunately because of the original (bad) choice of dev platform, I can’t do it.

I’m going to have to face up to a rewrite because constant requests are also being made for a web based platform.

So my thinking is leaning towards just using the web. Which would also make it available on iPhones etc.

Web based has lots of advantages. automatically render the data as a website, easily do competitor entry etc.

Any thoughts…?

Colin J
sailwave

3

Hi Colin

Your proposal has lots of advantages & would obviously be a sensible development

However, the advantages are only relevant if users have access to the internet.

Sadly, the UK lags behind many other countries in terms of internet access, especially for sailing clubs which are not close to areas of population and/or the clubhouse is surrounded by trees.

If you do go down a web based route, please don’t forget the many clubs out in the sticks

Regards

Ralph

···

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colin Jenkins
Sent: 18 December 2009 15:16
To: Sailwave User Group
Subject: [sailwave] web based sailwave?

I am constantly asked for Sailwave to be made available on other platforms and unfortunately because of the original (bad) choice of dev platform, I can’t do it.

I’m going to have to face up to a rewrite because constant requests are also being made for a web based platform.

So my thinking is leaning towards just using the web. Which would also make it available on iPhones etc.

Web based has lots of advantages. automatically render the data as a website, easily do competitor entry etc.

Any thoughts…?

Colin J
sailwave

4

Hi Colin

         In my experience web apps with a lot of ui, generally are like dancing dogs, it's amazing they dance just don't expect them to dance well!

         I would be amazed if you could get the interface and usability of a web based app as good as Sailwave Windows. And yes I stand by to be amazed!

         One other issue is that for the standard user, how is he going to run Sailwave? Remotely on a web server he doesn't own, and which may not run the technology such as ASP.NET that is required? Locally on his machine by installing a web server? Just running local web pages by double clicking them limits your technology to basic javascript or vbscript, no asp, php etc.

cheers
Tony

···

At 15:15 18/12/2009, Colin Jenkins wrote:

I am constantly asked for Sailwave to be made available on other platforms and unfortunately because of the original (bad) choice of dev platform, I can't do it.

I'm going to have to face up to a rewrite because constant requests are also being made for a web based platform.

So my thinking is leaning towards just using the web. Which would also make it available on iPhones etc.

Web based has lots of advantages. automatically render the data as a website, easily do competitor entry etc.

Any thoughts...?

Colin J
sailwave

5

Colin,

I presume the other platforms are Mac?

Well I run it on a Mac using windows emulation so no real problem for me.

Going to a web app would pose real problems when internet connectivity is an issue - I work on it on the train, on the boat, all over the place and I’d hate to lose that flexibility. I’d be worried that you’d scare the pants off the huge number of people who use this software who have limited IT experience and can’t cope with not having a local copy to work on.

Regards

···

–
Steve Vyse**Chairman, Royal Escape Committee

33 East Meadway, Shoreham-by-Sea, West Sussex BN43 5RF, Angleterre
Mobile +44 (0)7785 275 378
Skype stevevyse

www.royalescaperace.co.uk

On 18 Dec 2009, at 15:15, Colin Jenkins wrote:

I am constantly asked for Sailwave to be made
available on other platforms and unfortunately because of the original
(bad) choice of dev platform, I can’t do it.

I’m going to have to face up to a rewrite because constant requests are
also being made for a web based platform.

So my thinking is leaning towards just using the web. Which would also
make it available on iPhones etc.

Web based has lots of advantages. automatically render the data as a
website, easily do competitor entry etc.

Any thoughts…?

Colin J

sailwave

6

A local Web server is possible, best use a free one (so avoid Microsoft products). It was quite easy for me to install the apache server for test purposes, but I can understand this is not so simple for most of the users. Clubs are also reluctant to keep their computers up-to-date, and low capacity disks would soon be saturated.

Regards

Phil

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Tucker" <tony@tonytucker.com>
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] web based sailwave?

Hi Colin

        In my experience web apps with a lot of
ui, generally are like dancing dogs, it's amazing
they dance just don't expect them to dance well!

        I would be amazed if you could get the
interface and usability of a web based app as
good as Sailwave Windows. And yes I stand by to be amazed!

        One other issue is that for the standard
user, how is he going to run Sailwave? Remotely
on a web server he doesn't own, and which may not
run the technology such as ASP.NET that is
required? Locally on his machine by installing a
web server? Just running local web pages by
double clicking them limits your technology to
basic javascript or vbscript, no asp, php etc.

cheers
Tony

At 15:15 18/12/2009, Colin Jenkins wrote:

I am constantly asked for Sailwave to be made
available on other platforms and unfortunately
because of the original (bad) choice of dev platform, I can't do it.

I'm going to have to face up to a rewrite
because constant requests are also being made for a web based platform.

So my thinking is leaning towards just using the
web. Which would also make it available on iPhones etc.

Web based has lots of advantages. automatically
render the data as a website, easily do competitor entry etc.

Any thoughts...?

Colin J
sailwave

------------------------------------

-!- http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ -!- http://www.sailing.org/ -!- http://www.sailwave.com/ -!- On-Line Sailwave help...http://sailwave.com/help/HTML ~ Mark Thompson's Sailwave User Manual is available from http://www.abyc.org/upload/Sailwave_ABYC_User_Guide_2009-08-21.pdf ~ Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com ~ To unsubscribe from the SUG please send blank email to sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links

7

thanks for the quick feedback david/ralph/tony

one possibility that covers everything is using a thin client. you
could download sailwave windows and run locally, or if you want to use
the web, use the thin client - the interface would be exactly the
same. however the problems with thin clients in my experience is
printers and file locations and server loading. i don’t like this idea.

my preference is a server side sailwave (Ajax) API - an engine
(PHP/mySQL). with client side javascript (or java or anything platform
independent) user interfaces. I would provide a default one (ug), but
others could write their own and interface other apps into the API -
including a windows UI. i envisage scoring systems as scripts - i
supply appendix A and addendum C (maybe :)) - but if your club has some
weird and wonderful scoring systyem (and we know they are out there) -
then a script for that could be developed - independently of the
standard stuff. i envisage publishing formats similarly - once
javascript is in the loop anything is possible - (it is now actually if
i made the data available as CDATA then formatted it with javascript).

however, i take the point about the work
involved writing a new UI - is it actually feasible - there is a
surprising number fo windows in sailwave - a new UI ‘paradigm’ would be
needed maybe.

as an engine/database with all the results server
side, some awesome calculations could be done to get handicaps out of
it on a regional bases - i.e. N miles of long/lat!

but what about the DPA and how do sites get around that now? it is
largely ignored?

anyway just thinking aloud because the majority of my private emails is
about platforms.

my skills are php/mysql/javascript/jquery+ui/c/c++

  • not the sun java side of things.

there are literally thousands of clubs out there
using sailwave - i would like to bring them together into a sailwave
web community - with social app like features as well (subscribe to
events, make friends, auto microsites for events etc) - but actually
deciding a route is very difficult… i have started and failed a few
times which is why i thought i’d throw it open - at the risk of a
competitor with more resources doing it before me…

CJ

David Moring wrote:

···

colin@sailwave.com
sailwave@yahoogroups.com

I am constantly asked for Sailwave to
be made available on other platforms and unfortunately because of the
original (bad) choice of dev platform, I can’t do it.

I’m going to have to face up to a rewrite because constant requests are
also being made for a web based platform.

So my thinking is leaning towards just using the web. Which would also
make it available on iPhones etc.

Web based has lots of advantages. automatically render the data as a
website, easily do competitor entry etc.

Any thoughts…?

Colin J

sailwave

www.avg.com

8

Hi Colin

         All this seems to pre-suppose that everyone is using the same web server, which may be possible if we can find a sponsor who has a decent server, but otherwise seems to be an ongoing expense you can't be expected to meet.

         I would assume most users use Windows, Mac user have a choice of emulators that seem to work well, and some users are happy with Wine and Linux. So really it's only mobile applications.

         What about a totally off the wall suggestion? Adobe Flash? Web, Windows, Mac, as native, IPhone soon. Linux if you use Zinc. One lot of code does it all, and with Actionscript 3 it's a very decent OOP language. I would be very happy to help with coding if this was a go.

cheers
Tony

···

At 16:30 18/12/2009, Colin Jenkins wrote:

thanks for the quick feedback david/ralph/tony

one possibility that covers everything is using a thin client. you could download sailwave windows and run locally, or if you want to use the web, use the thin client - the interface would be exactly the same. however the problems with thin clients in my experience is printers and file locations and server loading. i don't like this idea.

my preference is a server side sailwave (Ajax) API - an engine (PHP/mySQL). with client side javascript (or java or anything platform independent) user interfaces. I would provide a default one (ug), but others could write their own and interface other apps into the API - including a windows UI. i envisage scoring systems as scripts - i supply appendix A and addendum C (maybe :)) - but if your club has some weird and wonderful scoring systyem (and we know they are out there) - then a script for that could be developed - independently of the standard stuff. i envisage publishing formats similarly - once javascript is in the loop anything is possible - (it is now actually if i made the data available as CDATA then formatted it with javascript).

however, i take the point about the work involved writing a new UI - is it actually feasible - there is a surprising number fo windows in sailwave - a new UI 'paradigm' would be needed maybe.

as an engine/database with all the results server side, some awesome calculations could be done to get handicaps out of it on a regional bases - i.e. N miles of long/lat!

but what about the DPA and how do sites get around that now? it is largely ignored?

anyway just thinking aloud because the majority of my private emails is about platforms.

my skills are php/mysql/javascript/jquery+ui/c/c++ - not the sun java side of things.

there are literally thousands of clubs out there using sailwave - i would like to bring them together into a sailwave web community - with social app like features as well (subscribe to events, make friends, auto microsites for events etc) - but actually deciding a route is very difficult... i have started and failed a few times which is why i thought i'd throw it open - at the risk of a competitor with more resources doing it before me... > >CJ > >David Moring wrote:

Colin,

I'm a sailor and a professional programmer who also follows Sailwave peripherally. I agree the idea of a web interface would be a huge benefit on the surface - depending on how you envision the actual web app being available. A couple of issues I see would be:

1) Where the scorer has no web access - a common situation at many clubs. Thus, if you would do some sort of web app that could be downloaded and installed on the user's local web server (as well as possibly being available at SailWave.com or some such), then you get around the "offline issue".

2) For the online app, you'd have to be able to scale it out to store and retrieve scoring by user/login. The storage and bandwidth requirements would be pretty good for that.

My initial 2 cents... anything I can help or kibitz on, please let me know!

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins <mailto:colin@sailwave.com><colin@sailwave.com>
To: Sailwave User Group <mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com><sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:15:32 +0000
Subject: [sailwave] web based sailwave?

I am constantly asked for Sailwave to be made available on other platforms and unfortunately because of the original (bad) choice of dev platform, I can't do it.

I'm going to have to face up to a rewrite because constant requests are also being made for a web based platform.

So my thinking is leaning towards just using the web. Which would also make it available on iPhones etc.

Web based has lots of advantages. automatically render the data as a website, easily do competitor entry etc.

Any thoughts...?

Colin J
sailwave

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.716 / Virus Database: 270.14.113/2573 - Release Date: 12/18/09 07:35:00

9

Thanks Colin for your hard work and contributions to the sport.

My little club http://ussailing.net/waccamaw/ has used SailWave since 2001 with basically one person (me) doing the scoring. While at my lake cabin I use an old laptop with at best a slow dial connection to the world.

I am concerned that a remote login from the lake might be slow.

…Gil

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
Colin Jenkins

To: Sailwave User Group

Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:15 AM

Subject: [sailwave] web based sailwave?

I am constantly asked for Sailwave to be made available on other platforms and unfortunately because of the original (bad) choice of dev platform, I can’t do it.

I’m going to have to face up to a rewrite because constant requests are also being made for a web based platform.

So my thinking is leaning towards just using the web. Which would also make it available on iPhones etc.

Web based has lots of advantages. automatically render the data as a website, easily do competitor entry etc.

Any thoughts…?

Colin J
sailwave

10

Colin,

I do a lot of web programming as a “hobby”, and I currently run the website for Bronte Harbour Yacht Club (http://www.bhyc.on.ca), and the Bronte Rocks Regatta (www.bronterocks.com) site.

These are both run on a “web framework” called Django (http://djangoproject.com) The BHYC website is about to be enabled with “social community” functionality for “members only” with Pinax, which is a collection of Django apps (http://www.pinaxproject.com)

All of this is programmed in Python, which I happen to really like as a high-level language, as it is very fast to program in, and it encourages programmers to write good code.

The reason I mention all this, is because I think you could use a “web framework” like this (and Ruby on Rails is another one that might be interesting, if you prefer Ruby over Python) as a base for the “next” sailwave. In fact, I have often thought about writing a scoring application of my own with this technology as a basis.

Django abstracts a lot of things for you, so you can focus on the functionality of your application. It can be run on Windows, Unix, Mac, and can use MySQL, PostgreSQL, and SQLite for data store. It has a “Model,Template,View” (MTV) model, which is very similar to the MVC (Model, View, Controller) idea. You write your models in python, and django builds your tables, relations, etc in the database. There are lots of other good points about Django, so I’d recommend having a look to see if it appeals.

I don’t know if this is the direction you see things going, but I thought I’d throw it out there, since I have really come to appreciate the many qualities of the framework. I personally despise PHP, since it munges presentation, content, and logic, and I look at it as the current-day equivalent of spaghetti-basic.

Also, as mentioned, you may want to look into Ruby on Rails. I’ve never worked with the Ruby language, but I hear it’s pretty similar to Python in many ways, with a few core philosophy differences. Both Django and RoR have strong community support.

Whatever direction you decide to pursue with Sailwave, if you need any programming / web / etc. help, I’d be happy to assist. I have no interest in retaining any copyright, license, etc. for my work, and would gladly donate the time as you have done to give us the extremely useful Sailwave product that we’ve come to appreciate over the years.

Regards,

Patrick

···

Patrick Toal

ptoal@takeflight.ca

On 2009-12-18, at 10:15 AM, Colin Jenkins wrote:

I am constantly asked for Sailwave to be made available on other platforms and unfortunately because of the original (bad) choice of dev platform, I can’t do it.

I’m going to have to face up to a rewrite because constant requests are also being made for a web based platform.

So my thinking is leaning towards just using the web. Which would also make it available on iPhones etc.

Web based has lots of advantages. automatically render the data as a website, easily do competitor entry etc.

Any thoughts…?

Colin J
sailwave

11

Patrick Toal wrote:

Django abstracts a lot of things for you, so you can focus on
the functionality of your application. It can be run on Windows, Unix,
Mac, and can use MySQL, PostgreSQL, and SQLite for data store. It has
a “Model,Template,View” (MTV) model, which is very similar to the
MVC (Model, View, Controller) idea. You write your models in python,
and django builds your tables, relations, etc in the database. There
are lots of other good points about Django, so I’d recommend having a
look to see if it appeals.

I don’t know if this is the direction you see things going, but
I thought I’d throw it out there, since I have really come to
appreciate the many qualities of the framework. I personally despise
PHP, since it munges presentation, content, and logic, and I look at it
as the current-day equivalent of spaghetti-basic.

For the record there are frameworks for PHP that can do something
similar. Joomla’s own framework uses MTV/MVC nowadays but even that is
considered clumsy by some! I think there are several frameworks out
there that can be added on top of PHP that will achieve simillar to
what RoR does for your programming…

We could spend days and years talking here about which language to do
it in!

My only thought on Python or Ruby is if you are expecting clubs to self
host this - are there discount hosting packages available with python
and RoR on them? I can find PHP and SQL for under £15 a year.

Whatever direction you decide to pursue with Sailwave, if you
need any programming / web / etc. help, I’d be happy to assist. I have
no interest in retaining any copyright, license, etc. for my work, and
would gladly donate the time as you have done to give us the extremely
useful Sailwave product that we’ve come to appreciate over the years.

I think you’ve had 3 or 4 simillar offers. If for no-other reason I
think that sends a really strong signal that doing something that
allows access to the source would be a good idea so that the community
can contribute to the code. Even if a pure web based solution can’t be
achieved - getting away from the currently closed code would have to be
a good thing and you have a list of willing contributors!

12

We could spend days and years talking here about which language to do it in!

Yes. And in retrospect, I realize that I might have started a religious war, and so I apologize. I really would prefer staying away from PHP, though. :slight_smile:

My only thought on Python or Ruby is if you are expecting clubs to self host this - are there discount hosting packages available with python and RoR on them? I can find PHP and SQL for under £15 a year.

The nice thing about Python is that you can also create standalone executables, including native GUI’s that wouldn’t need to be run on a web server. You can still hook into the Django framework, so you can abstract the content and logic from the presentation, and if you wanted, you could write a “native” GUI for the different platforms.

As to hosting, the BHYC servers are hosted @Webfaction. It’s a little pricier than your PHP host at $102 USD per year, but still within the range of most clubs, I think.

Whatever direction you decide to pursue with Sailwave, if you need any programming / web / etc. help, I’d be happy to assist. I have no interest in retaining any copyright, license, etc. for my work, and would gladly donate the time as you have done to give us the extremely useful Sailwave product that we’ve come to appreciate over the years.

I think you’ve had 3 or 4 simillar offers. If for no-other reason I think that sends a really strong signal that doing something that allows access to the source would be a good idea so that the community can contribute to the code. Even if a pure web based solution can’t be achieved - getting away from the currently closed code would have to be a good thing and you have a list of willing contributors!

Agreed. Even if it’s not written in a language I am fluent in, I’ll make an effort to help out in whatever way I can.

-PT

···

On 2009-12-20, at 4:25 AM, Calum Polwart wrote:

13

A major concern is the reliability and availability of internet service. ABYC’s current choice of Sailwave is partly based upon the fact that it does not rely upon ISP connectivity to score the regatta. We can not afford a scenario where the Internet connection is unavailable for whatever reason, and we are unable to calculate the results to determine the prize winners!

Even if there there was a browser based version available, unless a thick client was available we would switch to another scoring program.

Keep up the great work Colin.

Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

···

From: Colin Jenkins

Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 7:15 AM

To: Sailwave User Group

Subject: [sailwave] web based sailwave?

I am constantly asked for Sailwave to be made available on other platforms and unfortunately because of the original (bad) choice of dev platform, I can’t do it.

I’m going to have to face up to a rewrite because constant requests are also being made for a web based platform.

So my thinking is leaning towards just using the web. Which would also make it available on iPhones etc.

Web based has lots of advantages. automatically render the data as a website, easily do competitor entry etc.

Any thoughts…?

Colin J
sailwave

14

As a non-computer techie user, most of this discussion is way above my head :~ However, the bottom line for me, as our club's results' dogsbody, is that I don't want to have to have a web connection available before I can input & process results. Similarly I want to have the results database, and program, available on a USB stick (or similar) for off-line work, and that program to remain small, light and efficient.

Why? Because IME:
1) my home internet connection is rarely 100% reliable
2) my sailing club is not 'connected' - cost / benefit currently judged as not good enough
3) sailing clubs (and pensioners like me) rarely have the latest / fastest / largest processors available to them

I can see the argument for those clubs that want multiple results input paths (but equally I'm glad that my club knows where the buck stops), and if whatever eventually emerges can do that, then fine, as long as my basic requirements are also met.

As always, I'd like to record my thanks for the work that Colin puts into Sailwave, especially his efforts to K.I.S.S. in the face of ever more complex regatta scoring regimes! More power to your elbow!

Mike
Lancing SC

15

Hear, hear, and I'm sure that goes for a large number of users. We do need to keep the simple non connected operation even if we do look to move forward and meet the needs of the more advanced users.

cheers
Tony

···

At 11:34 21/12/2009, Mike wrote:

As a non-computer techie user, most of this discussion is way above my head :~ However, the bottom line for me, as our club's results' dogsbody, is that I don't want to have to have a web connection available before I can input & process results. Similarly I want to have the results database, and program, available on a USB stick (or similar) for off-line work, and that program to remain small, light and efficient.

Why? Because IME:
1) my home internet connection is rarely 100% reliable
2) my sailing club is not 'connected' - cost / benefit currently judged as not good enough
3) sailing clubs (and pensioners like me) rarely have the latest / fastest / largest processors available to them

I can see the argument for those clubs that want multiple results input paths (but equally I'm glad that my club knows where the buck stops), and if whatever eventually emerges can do that, then fine, as long as my basic requirements are also met.

As always, I'd like to record my thanks for the work that Colin puts into Sailwave, especially his efforts to K.I.S.S. in the face of ever more complex regatta scoring regimes! More power to your elbow!

Mike
Lancing SC

16

As a computer-techie user, I also agree with everything you've said below. :slight_smile:

I think that one of the major benefits of sailwave today is the fact that it is easy to install and use, and that should not be sacrificed if it was re-written. I also agree that whatever format it takes should still be able to run standalone.

I'm curious what the "lowest common denominator" is for computing devices running sailwave today. I know our club has a fairly old 1.8Ghz machine with about 512MB of RAM. I'm sure that there are even older machines out there being used for sailwave as well.

Regards,
Pat

···

---
Patrick Toal
ptoal@takeflight.ca

On 2009-12-21, at 6:43 AM, Tony Tucker wrote:

Hear, hear, and I'm sure that goes for a large
number of users. We do need to keep the simple
non connected operation even if we do look to
move forward and meet the needs of the more advanced users.

cheers
Tony

At 11:34 21/12/2009, Mike wrote:

As a non-computer techie user, most of this
discussion is way above my head :~ However, the
bottom line for me, as our club's results'
dogsbody, is that I don't want to have to have a
web connection available before I can input &
process results. Similarly I want to have the
results database, and program, available on a
USB stick (or similar) for off-line work, and
that program to remain small, light and efficient.

Why? Because IME:
1) my home internet connection is rarely 100% reliable
2) my sailing club is not 'connected' - cost /
benefit currently judged as not good enough
3) sailing clubs (and pensioners like me) rarely
have the latest / fastest / largest processors available to them

I can see the argument for those clubs that want
multiple results input paths (but equally I'm
glad that my club knows where the buck stops),
and if whatever eventually emerges can do that,
then fine, as long as my basic requirements are also met.

As always, I'd like to record my thanks for the
work that Colin puts into Sailwave, especially
his efforts to K.I.S.S. in the face of ever more
complex regatta scoring regimes! More power to your elbow!

Mike
Lancing SC

------------------------------------

-!- http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ -!- http://www.sailing.org/ -!- http://www.sailwave.com/ -!- On-Line Sailwave help...http://sailwave.com/help/HTML ~ Mark Thompson's Sailwave User Manual is available from http://www.abyc.org/upload/Sailwave_ABYC_User_Guide_2009-08-21.pdf ~ Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com ~ To unsubscribe from the SUG please send blank email to sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links

17

Oooo, that's 'modern'. This is being written using a 1GHz CPU with 512MB RAM, whereas the club's laptop uses a 75MHz Pentium running Windows95 on not very much RAM, IIRC! (We do have a more modern desktop, but IME fixed desktops and small sailing clubs don't mix too well due to the environment and wet sailors - whereas a laptop can be hidden away somewhere warm and dry when not in use.)

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Toal <ptoal@...> wrote:

I'm curious what the "lowest common denominator" is for computing devices running sailwave today. I know our club has a fairly old 1.8Ghz machine with about 512MB of RAM. I'm sure that there are even older machines out there being used for sailwave as well.

18

Oldest computer? How about a club that relies on member computers, ie club has NO club owned computer! so I guess one could say said club is still back in the paper only dark ages.

I’m not a computer junkie either, but do agree with the some of us do not want a fancy online only option. I know of a couple of larger clubs locally where I am that would and could use such a system. But with budgets in the mid 6 figure range, I am sure they can afford it. Clubs like mine that might hit 6 figures, talking barely 10K US dollars income per year, do not have the income or money no matter how what style of currency you use, be it dollars, Euros, pounds etc. I will admit where I am, wireless or mobile online access is rather good to excellent, so the access is not an issue. It is easier to operate at home on laptop than on a boat.

I know members of my less than 50 members were glad to see a system that other locals were using, one that is overall simple to program etc. So from this end Colin, please keep up the good work.

Altho it may be time for sailwave to go a bit more commercial in operation and function such that it is able to have a simple system as it is now, along with a more complex web based as I can see clubs that have 5-6 days a week of races, some weekends with upwards of 4 courses, 200+ boats…so a more complex system might be needed. I am sure they can afford it too, when you consider ALL of those 200 boats will be spending 75-150 USD to enter.

···

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
From: mdcroker@which.net
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:40:37 +0000
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Web based sailwave?

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Toal <ptoal@…> wrote:

I’m curious what the “lowest common denominator” is for computing devices running sailwave today. I know our club has a fairly old 1.8Ghz machine with about 512MB of RAM. I’m sure that there are even older machines out there being used for sailwave as well.

Oooo, that’s ‘modern’. This is being written using a 1GHz CPU with 512MB RAM, whereas the club’s laptop uses a 75MHz Pentium running Windows95 on not very much RAM, IIRC! (We do have a more modern desktop, but IME fixed desktops and small sailing clubs don’t mix too well due to the environment and wet sailors - whereas a laptop can be hidden away somewhere warm and dry when not in use.)

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19

I think I can 30th that from here in Scotland. Although the club is
near the centre of Edinburgh we don’t have internet access through our
700MHz Main scoring computer with 190 something of RAM.

If Sailwave has to be rewritten by Colin, possibly with help from
others and don’t give us all the fancy new features everyone seems to
want and this new version won’t show up for 6 months or a year will
that seriously disadvantage many of us currently using the program as
long as the currrent version is still available?

In the current economic climate the 30+ GBP that BT want for a net
connection just to run the scoring program is not an expense I could
justify to the rest of our club committee.

Just my 2 pence worth but there it is

Cheers Trevor Mackay

Sailing Secretary

Cramond Boat Club

···

<ptoal@…>

www.avg.com

20

Hi Colin,

I have been watching this thread closely and there has been some great input. As a user of Sailwave a both big and small clubs and as a professional sail administrator and a volunteer, I thought I would chip in.

I think it would be worth listing the pros and cons of a web based system so that those of us less IT orientated can better understand the situation.

whilst most of the against comments have come from the smaller clubs, here is one from a bigger club. I quite often go out on the RC boat and have results done prior to returning to the club. Whislt out there I have no connectivity so would need a stand alone module, as discussed earlier, to produce results and then put them on the web system.

Is the biggest benefit of going web based the multi platform issue?

I have some time ago given up on using sailwave for club keel boat racing, though still use it for one design and stand alone IRC events. Any rewrite in my mind would be worthless without a substantial handicap module which many have been asking and waiting patiently for. This would open up the program to significantly more users.

Apart from that, sailwave is the best there is. Once again thanks for you fantastic efforts.

Justin Kelleher.