Where I am

Imported from Yahoo
1

Hi All,

Have probably gong a little off track lately. Many users coming to 1.88
from 1.57 are horrified. Need to simplify the UI. I have ideas how to do
it. Problam at present is that everything is 'in your face' - you can edit
a competitor without being hit by flight stuff, ditto in scoring systems
etc. And starts in races (not always needed). I propose to have more items
in the setup menu, for starts, flights, ratings etc and *not* have them
elsewhere, in this way you only see them if you need them. It has
advantages too, Sailwave will use the first relevant rating/flight/start etc
in the list so for example if you have a fleet of 100 boats but only 4
classes, you'll only need 4 ratings. Starts will be inheritable, so you
donnt need to deifne them for every race etc etc. I've used this sort of
technique (a list if items and the first relevant one is used) before and it
works well. Scoring systems will be simplified with more tabs so that the
less used stuff like add c is in a tab of its own. I'll use 1.57 as the
reference so that users coming from it to this later verison are much more
comfortable. I'll be quiet for a while.

PS: I may have to remove the partnership thing. Since I changed it to say
'Sailwave will always be free but you can make a dotation' (from 'Sailwave
may be a pay for thing later') 2 clubs have donated in 6 months. Proabably
better to let it die and perhaps try for funding from a main sponsor.
Thanks to thouse who have donated to the project - I need to find a way to
recognise your contrubution if I do remove the scheme, but I'm not sure how
yet without paying you back!!

Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

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2

Hi Colin

I am a firm believer of the “Kiss” principal “Keep it simple stupid”

A question to ponder, how many clubs using Sailwave Worldwide regularly
use all the features?

I know from my own Club’s point () of view we use
both flights and fleets to separate our nine Divisional starts each
race day, subject to what Trophies are being sailed for, and use a TFC
as a personal handicap. The only time we call on the rest of the
features is when we hold a National or International or Special event
which is not all that frequently.
I like the idea of having all set-up requirements under the set-up
menu, even edit race so that when starting a new event you set it once
and all data is drawn from the initial set-up if that is possible.
I would like to see a facility under the “Columns” tab to set ones own
defaults but have the flexibility to change them for special events.
In your example you quote 100 boats in four classes only requiring four
ratings, however using personal handicaps will need individual TFC’s
and most clubs need personal handicaps so the novice can compete with
the expert just like a golfing handicap.
I have been out of action for a couple of months (got married, been to
Australia on business and had knee surgery) so haven’t had time to
experiment with “avebcr (3)” yet but will in the next week or two. Any
further development or feedback on this??
Why should Sailwave always be free?? I think a nominal charge should be
made for down loading the public version and that one can’t access the
development versions unless they have purchased the public version. You
would however have to have a trial version for 10, 20 or 30 days so
people can test it out. You have developed a very successful and
useful program which is good to use and easy to use so why not charge
for it? If the cost is reasonable people will gladly pay and that
would be better than 2 partners a year.
Kind regards
Wayne Nolan
Colin Jenkins wrote:

···

www.navalpoint.co.nz

`
Hi All,

Have probably gong a little off track lately. Many users coming to 1.88

from 1.57 are horrified. Need to simplify the UI. I have ideas how to
do

it. Problam at present is that everything is ‘in your face’ - you can
edit

a competitor without being hit by flight stuff, ditto in scoring systems

etc. And starts in races (not always needed). I propose to have more
items

in the setup menu, for starts, flights, ratings etc and not have them

elsewhere, in this way you only see them if you need them. It has

advantages too, Sailwave will use the first relevant
rating/flight/start etc

in the list so for example if you have a fleet of 100 boats but only 4

classes, you’ll only need 4 ratings. Starts will be inheritable, so you

donnt need to deifne them for every race etc etc. I’ve used this sort
of

technique (a list if items and the first relevant one is used) before
and it

works well. Scoring systems will be simplified with more tabs so that
the

less used stuff like add c is in a tab of its own. I’ll use 1.57 as the

reference so that users coming from it to this later verison are much
more

comfortable. I’ll be quiet for a while.

PS: I may have to remove the partnership thing. Since I changed it to
say

‘Sailwave will always be free but you can make a dotation’ (from
'Sailwave

may be a pay for thing later’) 2 clubs have donated in 6 months.
Proabably

better to let it die and perhaps try for funding from a main sponsor.

Thanks to thouse who have donated to the project - I need to find a way
to

recognise your contrubution if I do remove the scheme, but I’m not sure
how

yet without paying you back!!

Colin

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www.sailwave.com

3

Hi Wayne,

  >I am a firm believer of the "Kiss" principal "Keep it simple stupid"

Me too ! believe it or not !

  >I would like to see a facility under the "Columns" tab to set ones own
defaults but have the flexibility to change them for special events.<

Do you mean a default set of columns to show or something else...?

  >In your example you quote 100 boats in four classes only requiring four
ratings, however using personal handicaps will need individual TFC's and
most clubs need personal handicaps so the novice can compete with the expert
just like a golfing handicap.<

Yeah, I know, I was showing how simple it could be - if users want to get
more complicated then its upp to them, but as it stands you are forced to
see/use a rating for every competitor and its not necessary...

  >I have been out of action for a couple of months (got married, been to
Australia on business and had knee surgery) so haven't had time to
experiment with "avebcr (3)" yet but will in the next week or two. Any
further development or feedback on this??<

I think it's in 1.88 - check the F2 text for the AssignRating tool.

  >Why should Sailwave always be free?? I think a nominal charge should be
made for down loading the public version and that one can't access the
development versions unless they have purchased the public version. You
would however have to have a trial version for 10, 20 or 30 days so people
can test it out. You have developed a very successful and useful program
which is good to use and easy to use so why not charge for it? If the cost
is reasonable people will gladly pay and that would be better than 2
partners a year.<

I think if Sailwave was not free, most clubs (probably not those represented
by the SUG) would just use something else that is - there is plenty of good
free software out there - I like JavaScore because of it's platform
independence :slight_smile:

Free is OK - I'm happy with it as an alternative to voluntary donations,
which as not worked out - because - a RYA guy told me the other day that he
sees little else used in the UK "predominant" was his word - that has to be
attractive to a potential large sponsor of the likes of Volvo, Scandia, Oki
etc, because as free software I can state as a requirement that all users
must leave the sponsors logo/web-link on results etc etc; it's a way for
such a sponsor to get into the majority (?) of clubs in the UK as least.
But, I can't force that on clubs and individuals that have already donated
as partners, who must be free to remove such stuff, which is fine. Free is
also better for me because I cannot guarantee anything - it's a 'spare time'
(laughs) enterprise, I need to be able to disappear as I have done recently
without pissing people off. That's why the current partnership scheme is
carefully worded as a voluntary donation to the *project* and a not a
purchase of the software with support etc - which is probably also why it's
not very attractive... :slight_smile: It was an experiment - it failed.

NB: Sailwave is donwloaded over 1000 times a month. There are about 50,000
sets of results on the web, and have been many many more, they tend to fall
off after a year of two.

Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

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4

Hi Again Colin

Thanks for the comments.

You have up graded the columns feature in recent issues from a
situation where you just ticked the boxes you needed. The new columns
feature is good and gives one good options but I find it time consuming
to edit with every new series hence my suggestion to have default
settings that we choose and they stay at default until we edit them for
that special series.

I had a chat with Murray Philpott yesterday he went to the A Class
Worlds in France and said he got out on the trapeze only three times
during the whole series. It appears he has a similar if not the same
configuration as you have ordered. Has it arrived yet?? Wish I could
turn the clock back forty years and sail an “A” again.

Cheers Wayne

Colin Jenkins wrote:

···

www.sailwave.com

5

Hi Wayne,

I had a chat with Murray Philpott yesterday he went to the A Class Worlds

in France and said he got out on the trapeze only three times during the
whole series. It appears he has a similar if not the same configuration as
you have ordered. Has it arrived yet?? Wish I could turn the clock back
forty years and sail an "A" again.<

Picking it up on 26th Nov... :slight_smile: Auz Flyer platform, latest Goodall fat
head sail, medium Saarberg mast, Saarberg foils, centre sheeting.

PS: My sister has emigrated to Auz now - loves it - Perth area for the
surf... I'll be 'down' at some point - any chance of a few lessons off the
Auz/NZ experts... :slight_smile:

Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

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6

Hi Colin

Have you had any further thoughts about a default system in the upgraded columns feature??

Cheers Wayne

Wayne Nolan wrote:

···

Hi Again Colin

Thanks for the comments.

You have up graded the columns feature in recent issues from a situation where you just ticked the boxes you needed. The new columns feature is good and gives one good options but I find it time consuming to edit with every new series hence my suggestion to have default settings that we choose and they stay at default until we edit them for that special series.

I had a chat with Murray Philpott yesterday he went to the A Class Worlds in France and said he got out on the trapeze only three times during the whole series. It appears he has a similar if not the same configuration as you have ordered. Has it arrived yet?? Wish I could turn the clock back forty years and sail an "A" again.

Cheers Wayne

Colin Jenkins wrote:

Hi Wayne,

  >I am a firm believer of the "Kiss" principal "Keep it simple stupid"

Me too ! believe it or not !

  >I would like to see a facility under the "Columns" tab to set ones own
defaults but have the flexibility to change them for special events.<

Do you mean a default set of columns to show or something else...?

  >In your example you quote 100 boats in four classes only requiring four
ratings, however using personal handicaps will need individual TFC's and
most clubs need personal handicaps so the novice can compete with the expert
just like a golfing handicap.<

Yeah, I know, I was showing how simple it could be - if users want to get
more complicated then its upp to them, but as it stands you are forced to
see/use a rating for every competitor and its not necessary...

  >I have been out of action for a couple of months (got married, been to
Australia on business and had knee surgery) so haven't had time to
experiment with "avebcr (3)" yet but will in the next week or two. Any
further development or feedback on this??<

I think it's in 1.88 - check the F2 text for the AssignRating tool.

  >Why should Sailwave always be free?? I think a nominal charge should be
made for down loading the public version and that one can't access the
development versions unless they have purchased the public version. You
would however have to have a trial version for 10, 20 or 30 days so people
can test it out. You have developed a very successful and useful program
which is good to use and easy to use so why not charge for it? If the cost
is reasonable people will gladly pay and that would be better than 2
partners a year.<

I think if Sailwave was not free, most clubs (probably not those represented
by the SUG) would just use something else that is - there is plenty of good
free software out there - I like JavaScore because of it's platform
independence :slight_smile:

Free is OK - I'm happy with it as an alternative to voluntary donations,
which as not worked out - because - a RYA guy told me the other day that he
sees little else used in the UK "predominant" was his word - that has to be
attractive to a potential large sponsor of the likes of Volvo, Scandia, Oki
etc, because as free software I can state as a requirement that all users
must leave the sponsors logo/web-link on results etc etc; it's a way for
such a sponsor to get into the majority (?) of clubs in the UK as least.
But, I can't force that on clubs and individuals that have already donated
as partners, who must be free to remove such stuff, which is fine. Free is
also better for me because I cannot guarantee anything - it's a 'spare time'
(laughs) enterprise, I need to be able to disappear as I have done recently
without pissing people off. That's why the current partnership scheme is
carefully worded as a voluntary donation to the *project* and a not a
purchase of the software with support etc - which is probably also why it's
not very attractive... :slight_smile: It was an experiment - it failed.

NB: Sailwave is donwloaded over 1000 times a month. There are about 50,000
sets of results on the web, and have been many many more, they tend to fall
off after a year of two.

Colin
www.sailwave.com

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7

Hi Wayne,

Something will happen with the publishing ehnacments plabbed. For now I
suggest you make use of the File+NewLike feature that allows you set set up
series templates and create new series based on them. To setup the
publishing columns in the template series (which is just a std Sailwave
file) oopen it, setup as desired, test by publishing then save it. Any file
then created using that series as a template will inherit those publishing
options.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Wayne Nolan
Sent: 06 December 2005 07:20
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Where I am

Hi Colin

Have you had any further thoughts about a default system in the upgraded
columns feature??

Cheers Wayne

Wayne Nolan wrote:

> Hi Again Colin
>
> Thanks for the comments.
>
> You have up graded the columns feature in recent issues from a
> situation where you just ticked the boxes you needed. The new columns
> feature is good and gives one good options but I find it time
> consuming to edit with every new series hence my suggestion to have
> default settings that we choose and they stay at default until we edit
> them for that special series.
>
> I had a chat with Murray Philpott yesterday he went to the A Class
> Worlds in France and said he got out on the trapeze only three times
> during the whole series. It appears he has a similar if not the same
> configuration as you have ordered. Has it arrived yet?? Wish I could
> turn the clock back forty years and sail an "A" again.
>
> Cheers Wayne
>
> Colin Jenkins wrote:
>
>> Hi Wayne,
>>
>> >I am a firm believer of the "Kiss" principal "Keep it simple stupid"
>>
>> Me too ! believe it or not !
>>
>> >I would like to see a facility under the "Columns" tab to
set ones own
>> defaults but have the flexibility to change them for special events.<
>>
>> Do you mean a default set of columns to show or something else...?
>>
>> >In your example you quote 100 boats in four classes only requiring
>> four
>> ratings, however using personal handicaps will need individual
TFC's and
>> most clubs need personal handicaps so the novice can compete with the
>> expert
>> just like a golfing handicap.<
>>
>> Yeah, I know, I was showing how simple it could be - if users
want to get
>> more complicated then its upp to them, but as it stands you
are forced to
>> see/use a rating for every competitor and its not necessary...
>>
>> >I have been out of action for a couple of months (got
married, been to
>> Australia on business and had knee surgery) so haven't had time to
>> experiment with "avebcr (3)" yet but will in the next week or two. Any
>> further development or feedback on this??<
>>
>> I think it's in 1.88 - check the F2 text for the AssignRating tool.
>>
>> >Why should Sailwave always be free?? I think a nominal charge
>> should be
>> made for down loading the public version and that one can't access the
>> development versions unless they have purchased the public version. You
>> would however have to have a trial version for 10, 20 or 30 days so
>> people
>> can test it out. You have developed a very successful and
useful program
>> which is good to use and easy to use so why not charge for it? If
>> the cost
>> is reasonable people will gladly pay and that would be better than 2
>> partners a year.<
>>
>> I think if Sailwave was not free, most clubs (probably not those
>> represented
>> by the SUG) would just use something else that is - there is plenty
>> of good
>> free software out there - I like JavaScore because of it's platform
>> independence :slight_smile:
>>
>> Free is OK - I'm happy with it as an alternative to voluntary
donations,
>> which as not worked out - because - a RYA guy told me the other day
>> that he
>> sees little else used in the UK "predominant" was his word - that has
>> to be
>> attractive to a potential large sponsor of the likes of Volvo,
>> Scandia, Oki
>> etc, because as free software I can state as a requirement
that all users
>> must leave the sponsors logo/web-link on results etc etc; it's
a way for
>> such a sponsor to get into the majority (?) of clubs in the UK
as least.
>> But, I can't force that on clubs and individuals that have already
>> donated
>> as partners, who must be free to remove such stuff, which is fine.
>> Free is
>> also better for me because I cannot guarantee anything - it's a
>> 'spare time'
>> (laughs) enterprise, I need to be able to disappear as I have done
>> recently
>> without pissing people off. That's why the current
partnership scheme is
>> carefully worded as a voluntary donation to the *project* and a not a
>> purchase of the software with support etc - which is probably also
>> why it's
>> not very attractive... :slight_smile: It was an experiment - it failed.
>>
>> NB: Sailwave is donwloaded over 1000 times a month. There are about
>> 50,000
>> sets of results on the web, and have been many many more, they tend
>> to fall
>> off after a year of two.
>>
>> Colin
>> www.sailwave.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/161 - Release Date:
>> 03/11/2005
>>
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>>
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>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date:
5/11/2005
>>
>>
>
>
>
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