For the first time, we’ve used a whiskey flag to finish a race where the scoring isn’t just by position, but by elapsed time and number of laps. Any suggestions for how to enter this? Is there a code I’ve missed that would help me identify where the whiskey flag is used? Our race team simply noted their position rather than time they used whiskey flag. Many thanks for any suggestions! Janet
finish a race where the scoring isn’t just by position,
but by elapsed time and number of laps. Any suggestions
for how to enter this? Is there a code I’ve missed that
would help me identify where the whiskey flag is used?
Our race team simply noted their position rather than
time they used whiskey flag. Many thanks for any
suggestions! Janet
I think you missed the point, sorry. The boat in question was
finished under Whiskey flag, i.e . somewhere else on the
course other than the finish line, and no time *** was
recorded*** by the Race Team of that flag movement. So
there is no time available for the boat, this is why my suggestion
is that the Race Team submit a request for redress for the boat
and a Protest Committee decide an appropriate solution.
Yes, if the course is not a complete number of laps and you wish to average lap score you are into a whole world of pain.
For a while my club was in the habit of using a mobile start and a fixed finishing line with average laps. We partially got round the issue by timing through the finish line on the first lap and averaging complete laps, but it frequently threw up anomalies, especially if there were too few laps. Plus it needed custom calculations. We gave up the idea.
But back to the OP. Concur with all. Only solution is a redress hearing and dump it on the PC to do the best they can.
If there is a real straggler or two becalmed out on the track and it's a timed race I have finished them on track and added an hour to the finish time to ensure they score last and are excluded in PYS calculations, but you need to be very certain they could not possibly correct above anyone who has finished. Get agreement too.
I have to agree with Huw and Jim that this is one for the Protest Committee to deal with. The only real course of action at this stage is for the Race Committee to request redress for the competitor as provided for by RRS 60.2(b). The PC then has quite a lot of latitude to determine what is fair.
As Huw says, Whiskey finishing does not work for Handicap racing as all boats need to have sailed the same course for the rating system to work. Even when using average lap times, it is still important that the course for every lap is the same for every competitor and if you shorten it for one competitor, that is no longer true.
One solution going forward is to write an SI which says that a boat may be finished on the course but their time and lap count will be taken from the end of their previous lap. You then have to take times at the end of every lap but that is good practice anyway.
Yes, if the course is not a complete number of laps and you wish to average lap score you are into a whole world of pain.
For a while my club was in the habit of using a mobile start and a fixed finishing line with average laps. We partially got round the issue by timing through the finish line on the first lap and averaging complete laps, but it frequently threw up anomalies, especially if there were too few laps. Plus it needed custom calculations. We gave up the idea.
But back to the OP. Concur with all. Only solution is a redress hearing and dump it on the PC to do the best they can.
If there is a real straggler or two becalmed out on the track and it’s a timed race I have finished them on track and added an hour to the finish time to ensure they score last and are excluded in PYS calculations, but you need to be very certain they could not possibly correct above anyone who has finished. Get agreement too.
Ran across something similar (I think) at a 29er NAs this weekend where the SIs said boats had to finish within 10 minutes of the first boat, and those not finished would be scored on course and given their place. So the RC was charged with figuring out who was ahead of whom as the ten minute window closed.
Seems like this should have its own scoring code.
The idea is not to discourage competitors by gIving them a DNF, I guess.
jrc
John R Culter - Mobile
Vancouver Canada
+1 (604) 908-3119
Yes, if the course is not a complete number of laps and you wish to average lap score you are into a whole world of pain.
For a while my club was in the habit of using a mobile start and a fixed finishing line with average laps. We partially got round the issue by timing through the finish line on the first lap and averaging complete laps, but it frequently threw up anomalies, especially if there were too few laps. Plus it needed custom calculations. We gave up the idea.
But back to the OP. Concur with all. Only solution is a redress hearing and dump it on the PC to do the best they can.
If there is a real straggler or two becalmed out on the track and it’s a timed race I have finished them on track and added an hour to the finish time to ensure they score last and are excluded in PYS calculations, but you need to be very certain they could not possibly correct above anyone who has finished. Get agreement too.
If this is to give boats a score who would have scored DNF, this is what I use often:-
Any boat still racing when her time limit expires will be scored points equal to the number of boats finishing within the time limit plus 30% of the number of starters rounded to the nearest whole number, but no more points than the number of starters. Such boats will be scored Time Limit Expired (TLE). This changes RRS 35, A4.2 and A5.
It works quite well. Boats have to be still racing at the expiry of the time limit, it does not apply to those who retire early.
Ran across something similar (I think) at a 29er NAs this weekend where the SIs said boats had to finish within 10 minutes of the first boat, and those not finished would be scored on course and given their place. So the RC was charged with figuring out who was ahead of whom as the ten minute window closed.
Seems like this should have its own scoring code.
The idea is not to discourage competitors by gIving them a DNF, I guess.
jrc
John R Culter - Mobile
Vancouver Canada
+1 (604) 908-3119
Yes, if the course is not a complete number of laps and you wish to average lap score you are into a whole world of pain.
For a while my club was in the habit of using a mobile start and a fixed finishing line with average laps. We partially got round the issue by timing through the finish line on the first lap and averaging complete laps, but it frequently threw up anomalies, especially if there were too few laps. Plus it needed custom calculations. We gave up the idea.
But back to the OP. Concur with all. Only solution is a redress hearing and dump it on the PC to do the best they can.
If there is a real straggler or two becalmed out on the track and it’s a timed race I have finished them on track and added an hour to the finish time to ensure they score last and are excluded in PYS calculations, but you need to be very certain they could not possibly correct above anyone who has finished. Get agreement too.
Thanks for your input – lots to think about – what we have done is sought to finish the affected boat with an appropriate estimated time and number of laps, which has solved the immediate problem
for scoring this particular race and boat.
If this is to give boats a score who would have scored DNF, this is what I use often:-
Any boat still racing when her time limit expires will be scored points equal to the number of boats finishing within the time limit plus 30% of the number of starters rounded
to the nearest whole number, but no more points than the number of starters. Such boats will be scored Time Limit Expired (TLE). This changes RRS 35, A4.2 and A5.*
It works quite well. Boats have to be still racing at the expiry of the time limit, it does not apply to those who retire early.
Ran across something similar (I think) at a 29er NAs this weekend where the SIs said boats had to finish within 10 minutes of the first boat, and those not finished would be scored
on course and given their place. So the RC was charged with figuring out who was ahead of whom as the ten minute window closed.
Seems like this should have its own scoring code.
The idea is not to discourage competitors by gIving them a DNF, I guess.
jrc
John R Culter - Mobile
Vancouver Canada
+1 (604) 908-3119
Yes, if the course is not a complete number of laps and you wish to average lap score you are into a whole world of pain.
For a while my club was in the habit of using a mobile start and a fixed finishing line with average laps. We partially got round the issue by timing through the finish line on the first lap and averaging complete laps, but it frequently threw up anomalies,
especially if there were too few laps. Plus it needed custom calculations. We gave up the idea.
But back to the OP. Concur with all. Only solution is a redress hearing and dump it on the PC to do the best they can.
If there is a real straggler or two becalmed out on the track and it’s a timed race I have finished them on track and added an hour to the finish time to ensure they score last and are excluded in PYS calculations, but you need to be very certain they could
not possibly correct above anyone who has finished. Get agreement too.