Are there any guides on writing an expression in the discard profile?
I have copied the equation in the reference for the Discard Profile but cannot make it work.
I have tried to edit the expression and changed the r and s variables.
I keep getting an illegal expression message.
I cannot find much on writing expressions.
Thanks
Hi Dave,
There is a tool tip and also a button to test the formula
a sample is shown above.
If you could explain what you are trying to achieve I will try and help you
Jon
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Jon Eskdale
03333 443377
07530 112233
All expressions are evaluated by the same function which is initialised to know the value of certain variables in each context. The generic help is in the reference:-
What I really want to do is learn how to write an expression in the Sailwave code.
I have looked at and read the expressions reference several times then tried to write it but nothing I do seems to work.
What I need to do if possible is write an expression that will give individual boats discards based on earning a discard every 4 races they actually race. Races they did not sail in do not help to earn the discards.
22 race series
1 throw-out is earned for every race a boat finishes (actual verbiage)
I could do this manually but I am not able to designate Discards manually or I just have not found out how to.
All this silliness was supposed to be written out of the SI but someone left it in and now I may have to score the 22 race series discards for each boat manually in a fracking spreadsheet. oh boy
Thanks Dave T
—In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, <jon@…> wrote :
Are there any guides on writing an expression in the discard profile?
I have copied the equation in the reference for the Discard Profile but cannot make it work.
I have tried to edit the expression and changed the r and s variables.
I keep getting an illegal expression message.
I cannot find much on writing expressions.
Thanks
dave@…
Try s/4 .
It means that boat’s throwouts are a quarter of his starts. Think that is what you want
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: d.trude@yahoo.com [sailwave]
Sent: Friday, September 7, 2018 2:52 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Writing expressions
What I really want to do is learn how to write an expression in the Sailwave code.
I have looked at and read the expressions reference several times then tried to write it but nothing I do seems to work.
What I need to do if possible is write an expression that will give individual boats discards based on earning a discard every 4 races they actually race. Races they did not sail in do not help to earn the discards.
22 race series
1 throw-out is earned for every race a boat finishes (actual verbiage)
I could do this manually but I am not able to designate Discards manually or I just have not found out how to.
All this silliness was supposed to be written out of the SI but someone left it in and now I may have to score the 22 race series discards for each boat manually in a fracking spreadsheet. oh boy
Thanks Dave T
—In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, <jon@…> wrote :
Are there any guides on writing an expression in the discard profile?
I have copied the equation in the reference for the Discard Profile but cannot make it work.
I have tried to edit the expression and changed the r and s variables.
I keep getting an illegal expression message.
I cannot find much on writing expressions.
Thanks
dave@…
Everyone is still getting the same amount of discards. regardless of the number of races finished.
we have in our results one boat that has only sailed 10 races.
That means he should only have 2 discards for every 4 races he has sailed. We have other boats that have sailed less.
Others who have sailed all the races to date should get 4 discards with the 5th coming up on the last race.
I am looking for a way to calculate the discards per boat based on the number of races the boat has finished.finished.
I do not think SW can do this or it is a very complicated expression.
I think I will be scoring the final series by hand next Wednesday.
Thanks
David T
David,
I’ve been following this conversation and want to understand how your scoring works overall. I feel we haven’t been given all the pieces of the jigsaw yet so can’t give answers that help you - which is what we want to do. Can you share the complete scoring system with us to satisfy our curiosity and enable the best advice?
It seems that boats don’t necessarily count the same number of races from the series. A boat sailing all 22 races will count 17 results while your 10 race boat counts only 8. The only way that makes any sort of sense to me is if you are using a high point scoring system.
Richard
Win the original handcrafted Black Isle Bowl from the Black Isle Men’s Shed. Go to http://bimshed.uk/bowl.asp for full details.
Hi David,
You can’t have individual boats having a different number of discards.
The number of discards will depend upon the number of races sailed normally.
I don’t understand how you could total the points if you have different number of discards unless you try to do an average or something like that.
Sailwave doesn’t support this as it is non - standard, I’m afraid. You would require a custom solution.
Jon
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Jon Eskdale
03333 443377
07530 112233
Can you share the complete scoring system with us to satisfy our curiosity
Agreed, I’d be fascinated to see the SI, and even more to hear what the thinking behind it is…
Jim C
I agree 100% Jon, I have been telling the old people at the club this is not right. But this is for our Wednesday summer series and they did weird stuff back then.
The issue was 4 years ago they had a custom written spread sheet that did all sorts of non-standard stuff. It kept crashing and I asked if they were done with-it. So I learned Sailwave and we have been using it for 3 years now.
I told them, the SI needs to be totally re-written and here I am holding the bag because they did not want to offend the guy who came up with all this stupid crap.
I exported the series data to excel and am calculating discards as the SI State.
The exact wording in the SI is:
15. SCORING: The Low-Point Scoring System (RRS Appendix A) shall apply.
15.1. The series will consist of the 22 scheduled races. One throw-out is earned for every four races a boat
finishes. The boat with the lowest series score is the winner, and others are ranked accordingly.
15.2. TIES AND OTHER RULES: Race ties will be broken using rule A 7. Series ties will be broken using rule
A 8.
I believe SI 15.1 is in violation to Appx A Scoring which is specific in stating that the races completed increase the discard count, not the races completed by boats individually. And The SI 15.1 does not state that 15.1 changes A2.1.
A2 SERIES SCORES
A2.1 Each boat’s series score shall, subject to rule 90.3(b), be the total of her race scores excluding her worst score. (The notice of race or sailing instructions may make a different arrangement by providing, for example, that no score will be excluded, that two or more scores will be excluded, or that a specified number of scores will be excluded if a specified number of races are completed. A race is completed if scored; see rule 90.3(a).) If a boat has two or more equal worst scores, the score(s) for the race(s) sailed earliest in the series shall be excluded. The boat with the lowest series score wins and others shall be ranked accordingly.
Sorry for the long post but others wanted to see more.
Thanks Guys. Hopefully now the Club will understand why changes need to be made.
Hi Dave,
I feel for you. 
It might take a bit of convincing, but a high points scoring system like “Chips” is much more suitable for long series like your Wednesday summer series. Boats get credit for the number of boats they beat. In our club’s overall long series we can have as few as 4 boats to as many as 25 boats racing
Sailwave is very flexible and you can change the scoring system from the low points to a high points system. You could run a version of the results using a high points system parallel to your current system and maybe convince the “old guard” to change.
Peter
On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 12:43 AM, d.trude@yahoo.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
I agree 100% Jon, I have been telling the old people at the club this is not right. But this is for our Wednesday summer series and they did weird stuff back then.
The issue was 4 years ago they had a custom written spread sheet that did all sorts of non-standard stuff. It kept crashing and I asked if they were done with-it. So I learned Sailwave and we have been using it for 3 years now.
I told them, the SI needs to be totally re-written and here I am holding the bag because they did not want to offend the guy who came up with all this stupid crap.
I exported the series data to excel and am calculating discards as the SI State.
The exact wording in the SI is:
15. SCORING: The Low-Point Scoring System (RRS Appendix A) shall apply.
15.1. The series will consist of the 22 scheduled races. One throw-out is earned for every four races a boat
finishes. The boat with the lowest series score is the winner, and others are ranked accordingly.
15.2. TIES AND OTHER RULES: Race ties will be broken using rule A 7. Series ties will be broken using rule
A 8.
I believe SI 15.1 is in violation to Appx A Scoring which is specific in stating that the races completed increase the discard count, not the races completed by boats individually. And The SI 15.1 does not state that 15.1 changes A2.1.
A2 SERIES SCORES
A2.1 Each boat’s series score shall, subject to rule 90.3(b), be the total of her race scores excluding her worst score. (The notice of race or sailing instructions may make a different arrangement by providing, for example, that no score will be excluded, that two or more scores will be excluded, or that a specified number of scores will be excluded if a specified number of races are completed. A race is completed if scored; see rule 90.3(a).) If a boat has two or more equal worst scores, the score(s) for the race(s) sailed earliest in the series shall be excluded. The boat with the lowest series score wins and others shall be ranked accordingly.
Sorry for the long post but others wanted to see more.
Thanks Guys. Hopefully now the Club will understand why changes need to be made.
Thanks Peter. our area is small and we have some really good racers.
I want to have a racing fleet and the cruiser non spin fleet. One goes fast and uses low poing app a and the other we can be Flexible.
On another note, I finally did figure out the expression part and did make something work.
I did not realize the expression had to be input in the discard profile field.
I thought you had to click the button and put it there where the test button is.
It is very unclear how that works.
Thanks to all and I’m sure I’ll have some other questions.
The discards stuff is CRAZY.
Consider some boats sail 16 races and other boats sail 10 races.
The boats that sail in 10 races will have 22 scores of which 20 will
count while the boats that sail in 16 races will count only 18 scores.
That makes no sense - having boats count differing numbers of scores.
RRS A2.1 isn't an issue as it allows the notice of race and sailing
instructions to provide for whatever number of discards you want. The
SIs cannot "violate" A2.1 since A2.1 says "do what the sailing
instructions say." It may not make any sense (as here) but it isn't a
rules problem.
TIES - 15.2 says to break race ties using A7, which says race ties shall
not be broken and boats get average points of the two position. I'd
delete that sentence as it makes no sense and actually provides the
opposite of what it implies.
15.2 goes on to say break series ties using A8. But, A8 applies whether
you mention it or not. So, I'd simply delete 15.2 entirely as it does
nothing and the rulebook defaults automatically apply.
Art
On 9/8/2018 9:43 AM, d.trude@yahoo.com [sailwave] wrote:
I agree 100% Jon, I have been telling the old people at the club this is
not right. But this is for our Wednesday summer series and they did
weird stuff back then.
The issue was 4 years ago they had a custom written spread sheet that
did all sorts of non-standard stuff. It kept crashing and I asked if
they were done with-it. So I learned Sailwave and we have been using it
for 3 years now.I told them, the SI needs to be totally re-written and here I am holding
the bag because they did not want to offend the guy who came up with all
this stupid crap.I exported the series data to excel and am calculating discards as the
SI State.The exact wording in the SI is:
15. SCORING: The Low-Point Scoring System (RRS Appendix A) shall apply.15.1. The series will consist of the 22 scheduled races. *One
throw-out is earned for every four races a boat finishes*. The boat
with the lowest series score is the winner, and others are ranked
accordingly.15.2. TIES AND OTHER RULES: Race ties will be broken using rule A 7.
Series ties will be broken using rule A 8.
**// _^I believe SI 15.1 is in violation to Appx A Scoring which is specific in
stating that the races completed increase the discard count, not the
races completed by boats individually. And The SI 15.1 does not state
that 15.1 changes A2.1.A2 SERIES SCORES
A2.1 Each boat�s series score shall, subject to rule 90.3(b), be the
total of her race scores excluding her worst score. *(The notice of
race or sailing instructions may make a different arrangement by
providing, for example, that no score will be excluded, that two or
more scores will be excluded, or that a specified number of scores
will be excluded if a specified number of races are completed. A
race is completed if scored; see rule 90.3(a).*) If a boat has two
or more equal worst scores, the score(s) for the race(s) sailed
earliest in the series shall be excluded. The boat with the lowest
series score wins and others shall be ranked accordingly.Sorry for the long post but others wanted to see more.
Thanks Guys. Hopefully now the Club will understand why changes need to
be made.
I got my numbers reversed: those that sail in 16 races count there
smallest 18 scores (of 22 total scores) while those boats that sail in
10 races count there smallest 20 scores. Pretty obvious which boats are
seriously disadvantaged. Probably not important in my example but
consider one less discard between a boat that finishes in 15 races vs a
boat that finishes in 16 races.
On 9/8/2018 7:16 PM, Art Engel art@racingrules.org [sailwave] wrote:
The discards stuff is CRAZY.
Consider some boats sail 16 races and other boats sail 10 races.
The boats that sail in 10 races will have 22 scores of which 20 will
count while the boats that sail in 16 races will count only 18 scores.
That makes no sense - having boats count differing numbers of scores.RRS A2.1 isn't an issue as it allows the notice of race and sailing
instructions to provide for whatever number of discards you want. The
SIs cannot "violate" A2.1 since A2.1 says "do what the sailing
instructions say." It may not make any sense (as here) but it isn't a
rules problem.TIES - 15.2 says to break race ties using A7, which says race ties shall
not be broken and boats get average points of the two position. I'd
delete that sentence as it makes no sense and actually provides the
opposite of what it implies.15.2 goes on to say break series ties using A8. But, A8 applies whether
you mention it or not. So, I'd simply delete 15.2 entirely as it does
nothing and the rulebook defaults automatically apply.Art
On 9/8/2018 9:43 AM, d.trude@yahoo.com [sailwave] wrote:
I agree 100% Jon, I have been telling the old people at the club this is
not right. But this is for our Wednesday summer series and they did
weird stuff back then.
The issue was 4 years ago they had a custom written spread sheet that
did all sorts of non-standard stuff. It kept crashing and I asked if
they were done with-it. So I learned Sailwave and we have been using it
for 3 years now.I told them, the SI needs to be totally re-written and here I am holding
the bag because they did not want to offend the guy who came up with all
this stupid crap.I exported the series data to excel and am calculating discards as the
SI State.The exact wording in the SI is:
15. SCORING: The Low-Point Scoring System (RRS Appendix A) shall apply.15.1. The series will consist of the 22 scheduled races. *One
throw-out is earned for every four races a boat finishes*. The boat
with the lowest series score is the winner, and others are ranked
accordingly.15.2. TIES AND OTHER RULES: Race ties will be broken using rule A 7.
Series ties will be broken using rule A 8.
**// _^I believe SI 15.1 is in violation to Appx A Scoring which is specific in
stating that the races completed increase the discard count, not the
races completed by boats individually. And The SI 15.1 does not state
that 15.1 changes A2.1.A2 SERIES SCORES
A2.1 Each boat�s series score shall, subject to rule 90.3(b), be the
total of her race scores excluding her worst score. *(The notice of
race or sailing instructions may make a different arrangement by
providing, for example, that no score will be excluded, that two or
more scores will be excluded, or that a specified number of scores
will be excluded if a specified number of races are completed. A
race is completed if scored; see rule 90.3(a).*) If a boat has two
or more equal worst scores, the score(s) for the race(s) sailed
earliest in the series shall be excluded. The boat with the lowest
series score wins and others shall be ranked accordingly.Sorry for the long post but others wanted to see more.
Thanks Guys. Hopefully now the Club will understand why changes need to
be made.
I understood what you meant Art.
but I think A2 is for interpretation.
It does allow for the NOR and SI to make changes but then goes on to clarify the changes and DOES NOT say anything about a specified number of races completed by an individual boat RATHER races completed by the RC.
That is how I interpret A2. 90.3 goes on to state that it is the RC not individual boats that determine a completed race.
Cheers guys