Hi Peggy,
A quick follow-up to my previous message.
There is a distinction that needs to be understood between place ,
rank and score . The majority of the
time/cases this distinction is is not important, but when scoring
penalties are involved it is important.
In a race where there are no scoring penalties or any of the
scoring codes used, then place, race rank
and race score are synonymous and in the low point
scoring system equal. But when scoring penalties are involved the
race result is ordered on race score and then the
rank determined, with boats with equal race score
being given the same race rank with the next boat
given, by Sailwave,the previous boat(s) race rank
+2. I have not found anything, so far, in the RRS that says
whether this is right or wrong way, perhaps one of the SUG members
who is much more versed with RRS would like to comment.
The opening sentence specifies “The race score
for a boat that takes a Scoring Penalty…” not race rank .
The final sentence uses the words "scores "
and “score”, again not rank.
44.3 Scoring Penalty
(c) The race score for a boat that takes a
Scoring Penalty shall be the score she would
have received without that penalty, made worse
by the number of places stated in the sailing
instructions. However, she shall not be scored
worse than Did Not Finish. When the sailing
instructions do not state the number of places,
the number shall be the whole number (rounding
0.5 upward) nearest to 20% of the number of
boats entered. The scores of other boats shall
not be changed; therefore, two boats may receive
the same score.
The usage of words is further complicated because RRS 44.3(c) is now
talking about places - “…a Scoring Penalty shall be
the score she would have received without that
penalty, made worse by the number of places stated in
the sailing instructions. …”.
The joys of interpreting the words written in different rules.
I see Jon has also replied whilst I have been typing this message,
which has gone through several revisions to try and get wording as
clear as my understanding of RSS allows.
I hope you and the Race Committee find this information and
explanation useful.
Kind regards,
Huw
···
On 29/03/17 08:15, Huw Pearce [sailwave] wrote:
huw.pearce@bcs.org.uk
Hi Peggy,
Good morning from Wales.
I have looked at results and Sailwave is being consistent
in its behaviour across all races with a ZFP penalty.
What is being confused is race rank and scored
points.
In R7 []
the ZFP penalty pushes the to beyond
the last competitor to finish and so
there is no position to tie with and no competitors below
to not have their changed. If you look
at the points column you will see there is no competitor
scoring 27 which is what the competitor who has ZFP would
have received.
Take a look at R4 []
and you will see is consecutive to rank
16 where there are two and then starts again at 18. Now
take a look in the points column and you will see 11 is
missing which is the points the ZFP competitor would have
got without the penalty.
I hope this makes sense.
Kind regards,
Huw
http://sailwave.com/results/2017LaserMidWinters.htm#r7laserscored points*race rank,*race rank
http://sailwave.com/results/2017LaserMidWinters.htm#r4laserrace rank
On 29/03/2017 02:41, Peggy
Powers [sailwave] wrote:
getpilatesfit@gmail.com
I have found another issue in Race 7. The rule 44.3
© says “The scores of other boats shall not be
changed…” In race 7 the Laser sailor who got ZFP would
have been 27th. When we applied the penalty it
assigned 33 points which is correct but it changed the
other competitors scores. In all the other races
where there was a ZFP it didn’t do that. Can you
please check it for me?
Thanks,
Peggy
On Mar 28, 2017, at 8:07 AM, Huw
Pearce huw.pearce@bcs.org.uk
[sailwave] <sailwave@yahoogroups.com >
wrote:
Hi
Peggy, Peter & Jon,
I
have done so more detective work and
think I have found the solution.
Attached is the file you sent me Peggy
with my modifications.
So
what did I do!
As
already informed there was a problem
with start times for the boats with
code ZFP. Before I undertook the
following changes I recorded which sail
numbers were scored ZFP in which races.
So I made the following changes:
-
Edited race result data for
each competitor with ZFP code by right
click on ZFP code and changing result
option from code to start time as this
screen capture
<nhcbbeemihfgfofb.png>
-
Next I edited race
information for each race that had a
ZFP code by right click on race column
header followed by editing each start
and then clicking OK. This action
popped up a message in races 6, 7
& 8 that some start times for
competitors had been updated. This was
expected as Sailwave was updating the
start times for those boats that had
ZFP to the appropriate start time for
their class start.
- Next I scored the series.
-
Now I went and found the
competitors one at a time that had
been ZFP, and right clicked in the
race column cell in which they had ZFP
and selected Edit Results. So
returning to the screen capture above
and selected the code option.
-
Having done step for for
all competitors who had a ZFP I then
scored the series again.
The
attached file is the result of these
steps.
Why
or how the data needed these actions I
do not know.
I
am curious Peggy as to what system you
use for recording finish times and the
process which you go through to get
information into Sailwave.
I
hope what I have done produces the
results you are expecting.
Kind
regards,
Huw
<2017
Laser Midwinters Westb - Huw.blw>
On 28/03/17
15:14, Peggy Powers [sailwave]
wrote:
getpilatesfit@gmail.com
Wow, that’s weird. When I
look under Edit Race I do have a
start time, but when I click edit
result for that competitor there is
no start time. As I said, I have to
input the Race Info after I import
the results.
Thanks for your help.
Peggy
On Mar 28, 2017,
at 7:01 AM, Huw Pearce huw.pearce@bcs.org.uk [sailwave] <sailwave@yahoogroups.com >
wrote:
Hi Peggy &
Peter,
Yes boats with
ZFP code in R6[3x
Laser Radial], R7 [1x
Laser] & R8[2x
Laser] all have start
time of essentially
zero and therefore as
Peter says an elapsed
time equal to finish
time. Where as in R4
[2x Laser] have ZFP
code but the start
time is correct.
I do not
understand what is
going on at present
but I am working on
it, but may have to
converse with Jon the
man who codes Sailwave
now.
Keep a lookout
for update.
Kind regards,
Huw
On
28/03/17 14:29, Peter
van Muyden [sailwave] wrote:
pvanmuyden@gmail.com
Hi Peggy,
I
noticed that
most of the ZFP
penalty results
have a start
time of 00:00:00
which makes the
finish time the
elapsed time and
causes the
result to be the
same as a DNF.
This is as per
RRS 44.3©.
Cheers,
Peter
On
Tue, Mar 28,
2017 at 7:13 AM,
Peggy Powers getpilatesfit@gmail.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Thank
you Huw. The
file is
attached.
Peggy
On
Mon, Mar 27,
2017 at 11:56
PM, Huw Pearce huw.pearce@bcs.org.uk [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Hi
Peggy,
Please
could you let
me have a copy
of the file? I
will then have
look and see
what I can
find out.
Kind
regards,
Huw
On
28/03/2017
03:25, Peggy
Powers getpilatesfit@gmail.com [sailwave] wrote:
We
ran a
Laser/Radial
regatta this
weekend with 9
races.
Starting with
Race 4 there
was one ZFP
for a Laser
Sailor. It
appears to
have
calculated
correctly even
though I used
the same
procedure as
for the
remaining
races.
We use a
computer
generated
finish file
and import it
into Sailwave.
You have to
input the Race
Information
(Edit Race)
after you load
this file or
the elapsed
time is the
same as the
finish time.
Although this
was a one
design regatta
we still took
and published
times. Before
I input the
Race Info I
scored the
race and it
calculated the
ZFP correctly.
Once I input
the Race Info
and rescored
it changed the
ZFP points to
DNF points.
We are using
version 2.9.7.
I even went
back and setup
a whole new
program,
re-entered
every race and
then the race
info, scored
and it
calculated the
ZFP points as
if they were
disqualified.
I have the
file if you
need to see
it.
Thanks,
Peggy Powers
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–
Peggy
Powers
STOTT PILATES
Certified
Instructor
ACE-Certified
Personal
Trainer
getpilatesfit@gmail.com
310-344-7410
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