In a race an opi sailor had received a 20% ZPF penalty which I have added - he then received a second penalty of 20% in that same race - what code do I use to make sure that it is 20% and then an additional 20% penalty rather than 40% - please let me know if you have come across and solved this before
Many thanks
Rebecca
Hi Rebecca,
You need to create a new scoring code from the current ZFP code. This is done by highlighting the ZFP code then clicking the new button on the right hand side.
The new code should called New ZFP.
Click the new code and click the edit button the right hand side.
Suggest you change code name to ZFPx2 then change 20% to 44%
Now save the changes.
Apply the code to the competitor concerned.
How did I get 44%?
taking 100 as an example, 20% of 100 is 20 therefore total becomes 120. Now 20% of 120 is 24 therefore total now becomes 144. So to get same result of applying 20% to a score and then a further 20% to the new value you need 44%.
Unfortunately tthis is what you need to do in Sailwave.
Hope that all makes sense.
Kind regards,
Huw
Hi Rebecca,
Quick answer.
- Create new code from existing ZFP
- edit newcode to suggested code of ZFPx2
- change 20 in value field to 44
- click Properties tab
- change description line to include it is two penalties acquired
- save
- award code to competitor
There is a longer answer which would explain why 44%
Hope that helps
Kind regards,Huw
—In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, rebecca@goape.co.uk wrote :
In a race an opi sailor had received a 20% ZPF penalty which I have added - he then received a second penalty of 20% in that same race - what code do I use to make sure that it is 20% and then an additional 20% penalty rather than 40% - please let me know if you have come across and solved this before
Many thanks
Rebecca
Hi Rebecca,
There is a way but not directly as standard. You need to create a new scoring code.
Open Scoring system then click the Scoring codes tab.
Now click the ZFP code then click New button on right hand side
Now double click the new code ‘NewZFP’
Change the code name to say ZFPx2
change 20 in the value box to 44
click the Properties tab
edit the description to add something like two penalties acquired
save way out
apply code to competitor for the race in question
Hope that helps. I can explain why 44 for the value if you want in a separate answer.
Kind regards,
Huw
Hi Huw,
I would be interested to know why 44 works. I would have thought that it depends on the rounding and that will depend on the size of the fleet?
Ian
···
On 14 Aug 2018, at 9:27 pm, huw.pearce@bcs.org.uk [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Hi Rebecca,
There is a way but not directly as standard. You need to create a new scoring code.
Open Scoring system then click the Scoring codes tab.
Now click the ZFP code then click New button on right hand side
Now double click the new code ‘NewZFP’
Change the code name to say ZFPx2
change 20 in the value box to 44
click the Properties tab
edit the description to add something like two penalties acquired
save way out
apply code to competitor for the race in question
Hope that helps. I can explain why 44 for the value if you want in a separate answer.
Kind regards,
Huw
Hi Huw,
I don’t think that under RRS 44.3© two 20% penalties is
the same as one 44% penalty.
Below is an example:
In a 45 boat fleet, a 20th finish with two 20% scoring
penalties
Each 20% scoring penalty would be (45+1)*0.20 9 points rounded
The points for the 20th finish would be 20+9+9=
38 points
A 44% penalty would be (45+1)*0.44 20 points rounded for a total
of 40 points.
It should be noted that in the 2017-2020 RRS the scoring penalty is based on a DNF score instead of the number of entries. It’s good to see that Sailwave made that change.
Regards,
Peter
···
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:29 PM, huw.pearce@bcs.org.uk [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Hi Rebecca,
You need to create a new scoring code from the current ZFP code. This is done by highlighting the ZFP code then clicking the new button on the right hand side.
The new code should called New ZFP.
Click the new code and click the edit button the right hand side.
Suggest you change code name to ZFPx2 then change 20% to 44%
Now save the changes.
Apply the code to the competitor concerned.
How did I get 44%?
taking 100 as an example, 20% of 100 is 20 therefore total becomes 120. Now 20% of 120 is 24 therefore total now becomes 144. So to get same result of applying 20% to a score and then a further 20% to the new value you need 44%.
Unfortunately tthis is what you need to do in Sailwave.
Hope that all makes sense.
Kind regards,
Huw
My comment is probably obvious in view of subsequent emails but I
suspect it is probably worth mentioning.
For Low Point System, you take 20% of the score for DNF boats. For a
regatta, DNF is entrants plus one. So, assume 99 entrants; score for DNF
would be 100. That won't change based on whether or not boats take
Scoring Penalties. 20% of 100 is 20 places for first penalty and 20
places for second penalty so total is 40 places. A new ZFPx2 penalty
would be 40% in that example.
BUT, of course, that would change depending on the fleet size. Now
assume Low Point System and regatta with 16 entrants. DNF would be 16+1
or 17. 20% of 17 is 3.4 rounded to nearest whole number of 3. So, two
20% penalties would be 3 places + 3 places or 6 places. A new ZFPx2
penalty would be ~35% in that example.
I think you'd be better off calculating the number of places for a ZFPx2
penalty for a regatta and setting it as a fixed number rather than
trying to come up with a percentage that will vary based on fleet size.
The result would be the same but I think the logic is easier to follow
with a fixed number. Unfortunately, for an event longer than a regatta
(a long series, for example) DNF is "boats that came to the starting
area plus one" per A9 so you'll probably have to adjust either the fixed
number of places or the percentage for each race. A bit more complicated.
CAVEAT - Some classes and events score DNF differently than "entrants
(or boats that came to the starting area) plus one" and instead you will
sometimes see "finishers plus 2." Again, that would mean the fixed
number or percentage could change for every race.
Art
···
On 8/14/2018 12:29 PM, huw.pearce@bcs.org.uk [sailwave] wrote:
Hi Rebecca,
You need to create a new scoring code from the current ZFP code. This is
done by highlighting the ZFP code then clicking the new button on the
right hand side.
The new code should called New ZFP.
Click the new code and click the edit button the right hand side.
Suggest you change code name to ZFPx2 then change 20% to 44%
Now save the changes.Apply the code to the competitor concerned.
How did I get 44%?
taking 100 as an example, 20% of 100 is 20 therefore total becomes 120.
Now 20% of 120 is 24 therefore total now becomes 144. So to get same
result of applying 20% to a score and then a further 20% to the new
value you need 44%.Unfortunately tthis is what you need to do in Sailwave.
Hope that all makes sense.
Kind regards,
Huw
Hi Art, Rebecca et al,
Thank you for all the comments. I admit I was wrong in my
response, humble pie.
I agree with Art that the simplest way is to still create a new
scoring code as I indicated in my original response BUT change the
method to 'Score a fixed number of points ', where the
points have been calculated by hand as per RRS 44.3©.
Out of interest on my part, I have done a quick spread sheet
comparison of 20% penalty rounded as RRS 44.3© x2 against 40%
penalty rounded as RRS 44.3©, for DNF points in range 3 to 99:-
- 2x 20% penalty is higher in 20 instances
- 1x 40% penalty is higher in 19 instances
- No difference in penalty in 58 instances
Kind regards,
Huw
···
On 16/08/2018 00:31, Art Engel
[sailwave] wrote:
My comment is probably obvious in view of subsequentemails but I
suspect it is probably worth mentioning.For Low Point System, you take 20% of the score for DNFboats. For a
regatta, DNF is entrants plus one. So, assume 99 entrants;
score for DNF
would be 100. That won’t change based on whether or not
boats take
Scoring Penalties. 20% of 100 is 20 places for first
penalty and 20
places for second penalty so total is 40 places. A new
ZFPx2 penalty
would be 40% in that example.BUT, of course, that would change depending on the fleetsize. Now
assume Low Point System and regatta with 16 entrants. DNF
would be 16+1
or 17. 20% of 17 is 3.4 rounded to nearest whole number of
3. So, two
20% penalties would be 3 places + 3 places or 6 places. A
new ZFPx2
penalty would be ~35% in that example.I think you'd be better off calculating the number ofplaces for a ZFPx2
penalty for a regatta and setting it as a fixed number
rather than
trying to come up with a percentage that will vary based
on fleet size.
The result would be the same but I think the logic is
easier to follow
with a fixed number. Unfortunately, for an event longer
than a regatta
(a long series, for example) DNF is “boats that came to
the starting
area plus one” per A9 so you’ll probably have to adjust
either the fixed
number of places or the percentage for each race. A bit
more complicated.CAVEAT - Some classes and events score DNF differentlythan “entrants
(or boats that came to the starting area) plus one” and
instead you will
sometimes see “finishers plus 2.” Again, that would mean
the fixed
number or percentage could change for every race.Art On 8/14/2018 12:29 PM, [sailwave]wrote:
Hi Rebecca,
You need to create a new scoring code from the
current ZFP code. This is
done by highlighting the ZFP code then clicking the
new button on the
right hand side.
The new code should called New ZFP.
Click the new code and click the edit button the
right hand side.
Suggest you change code name to ZFPx2 then change 20%
to 44%
Now save the changes.Apply the code to the competitor concerned.
How did I get 44%?
taking 100 as an example, 20% of 100 is 20 therefore
total becomes 120.
Now 20% of 120 is 24 therefore total now becomes 144.
So to get same
result of applying 20% to a score and then a further
20% to the new
value you need 44%.Unfortunately tthis is what you need to do in
Sailwave.Hope that all makes sense.
Kind regards,
Huw
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