In a race an opi sailor had received a 20% ZPF penalty which I have added - he then received a second penalty of 20% in that same race - what code do I use to make sure that it is 20% and then an additional 20% penalty rather than 40% - please let me know if you have come across and solved this before

Many thanks

Rebecca

Hi Rebecca,

You need to create a new scoring code from the current ZFP code. This is done by highlighting the ZFP code then clicking the new button on the right hand side.

The new code should called New ZFP.

Click the new code and click the edit button the right hand side.

Suggest you change code name to ZFPx2 then change 20% to 44%

Now save the changes.

Apply the code to the competitor concerned.

How did I get 44%?

taking 100 as an example, 20% of 100 is 20 therefore total becomes 120. Now 20% of 120 is 24 therefore total now becomes 144. So to get same result of applying 20% to a score and then a further 20% to the new value you need 44%.

Unfortunately tthis is what you need to do in Sailwave.

Hope that all makes sense.

Kind regards,

Huw

Hi Rebecca,

Quick answer.

- Create new code from existing ZFP
- edit newcode to suggested code of ZFPx2
- change 20 in value field to 44
- click Properties tab
- change description line to include it is two penalties acquired
- save
- award code to competitor

There is a longer answer which would explain why 44%

Hope that helps

Kind regards,Huw

—In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, rebecca@goape.co.uk wrote :

In a race an opi sailor had received a 20% ZPF penalty which I have added - he then received a second penalty of 20% in that same race - what code do I use to make sure that it is 20% and then an additional 20% penalty rather than 40% - please let me know if you have come across and solved this before

Many thanks

Rebecca

Hi Rebecca,

There is a way but not directly as standard. You need to create a new scoring code.

Open Scoring system then click the Scoring codes tab.

Now click the ZFP code then click New button on right hand side

Now double click the new code ‘NewZFP’

Change the code name to say ZFPx2

change 20 in the value box to 44

click the Properties tab

edit the description to add something like two penalties acquired

save way out

apply code to competitor for the race in question

Hope that helps. I can explain why 44 for the value if you want in a separate answer.

Kind regards,

Huw

Hi Huw,

I would be interested to know why 44 works. I would have thought that it depends on the rounding and that will depend on the size of the fleet?

Ian

## ···

On 14 Aug 2018, at 9:27 pm, huw.pearce@bcs.org.uk [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Hi Rebecca,

There is a way but not directly as standard. You need to create a new scoring code.

Open Scoring system then click the Scoring codes tab.

Now click the ZFP code then click New button on right hand side

Now double click the new code ‘NewZFP’

Change the code name to say ZFPx2

change 20 in the value box to 44

click the Properties tab

edit the description to add something like two penalties acquired

save way out

apply code to competitor for the race in question

Hope that helps. I can explain why 44 for the value if you want in a separate answer.

Kind regards,

Huw

Hi Huw,

I don’t think that under RRS 44.3© two 20% penalties is

the same as one 44% penalty.

Below is an example:

In a 45 boat fleet, a 20th finish with two 20% scoring

penalties

Each 20% scoring penalty would be (45+1)*0.20 9 points rounded

The points for the 20

^{th}finish would be 20+9+9=

38 points

A 44% penalty would be (45+1)*0.44 20 points rounded for a total

of 40 points.

It should be noted that in the 2017-2020 RRS the scoring penalty is based on a DNF score instead of the number of entries. It’s good to see that Sailwave made that change.

Regards,

Peter

## ···

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:29 PM, huw.pearce@bcs.org.uk [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Hi Rebecca,

You need to create a new scoring code from the current ZFP code. This is done by highlighting the ZFP code then clicking the new button on the right hand side.

The new code should called New ZFP.

Click the new code and click the edit button the right hand side.

Suggest you change code name to ZFPx2 then change 20% to 44%

Now save the changes.

Apply the code to the competitor concerned.

How did I get 44%?

taking 100 as an example, 20% of 100 is 20 therefore total becomes 120. Now 20% of 120 is 24 therefore total now becomes 144. So to get same result of applying 20% to a score and then a further 20% to the new value you need 44%.

Unfortunately tthis is what you need to do in Sailwave.

Hope that all makes sense.

Kind regards,

Huw

My comment is probably obvious in view of subsequent emails but I

suspect it is probably worth mentioning.

For Low Point System, you take 20% of the score for DNF boats. For a

regatta, DNF is entrants plus one. So, assume 99 entrants; score for DNF

would be 100. That won't change based on whether or not boats take

Scoring Penalties. 20% of 100 is 20 places for first penalty and 20

places for second penalty so total is 40 places. A new ZFPx2 penalty

would be 40% in that example.

BUT, of course, that would change depending on the fleet size. Now

assume Low Point System and regatta with 16 entrants. DNF would be 16+1

or 17. 20% of 17 is 3.4 rounded to nearest whole number of 3. So, two

20% penalties would be 3 places + 3 places or 6 places. A new ZFPx2

penalty would be ~35% in that example.

I think you'd be better off calculating the number of places for a ZFPx2

penalty for a regatta and setting it as a fixed number rather than

trying to come up with a percentage that will vary based on fleet size.

The result would be the same but I think the logic is easier to follow

with a fixed number. Unfortunately, for an event longer than a regatta

(a long series, for example) DNF is "boats that came to the starting

area plus one" per A9 so you'll probably have to adjust either the fixed

number of places or the percentage for each race. A bit more complicated.

CAVEAT - Some classes and events score DNF differently than "entrants

(or boats that came to the starting area) plus one" and instead you will

sometimes see "finishers plus 2." Again, that would mean the fixed

number or percentage could change for every race.

Art

## ···

On 8/14/2018 12:29 PM, huw.pearce@bcs.org.uk [sailwave] wrote:

Hi Rebecca,

You need to create a new scoring code from the current ZFP code. This is

done by highlighting the ZFP code then clicking the new button on the

right hand side.

The new code should called New ZFP.

Click the new code and click the edit button the right hand side.

Suggest you change code name to ZFPx2 then change 20% to 44%

Now save the changes.Apply the code to the competitor concerned.

How did I get 44%?

taking 100 as an example, 20% of 100 is 20 therefore total becomes 120.

Now 20% of 120 is 24 therefore total now becomes 144. So to get same

result of applying 20% to a score and then a further 20% to the new

value you need 44%.Unfortunately tthis is what you need to do in Sailwave.

Hope that all makes sense.

Kind regards,

Huw

Hi Art, Rebecca et al,

```
Thank you for all the comments. I admit I was wrong in my
```

response, humble pie.

```
I agree with Art that the simplest way is to still create a new
```

scoring code as I indicated in my original response BUT change the

method to '*Score a fixed number of points* ', where the

points have been calculated by hand as per RRS 44.3©.

```
Out of interest on my part, I have done a quick spread sheet
```

comparison of 20% penalty rounded as RRS 44.3© x2 against 40%

penalty rounded as RRS 44.3©, for DNF points in range 3 to 99:-

- 2x 20% penalty is higher in 20 instances
- 1x 40% penalty is higher in 19 instances
- No difference in penalty in 58 instances

Kind regards,

Huw

## ···

On 16/08/2018 00:31, Art Engel

[sailwave] wrote:

`My comment is probably obvious in view of subsequent`

emails but I

suspect it is probably worth mentioning.`For Low Point System, you take 20% of the score for DNF`

boats. For a

regatta, DNF is entrants plus one. So, assume 99 entrants;

score for DNF

would be 100. That won’t change based on whether or not

boats take

Scoring Penalties. 20% of 100 is 20 places for first

penalty and 20

places for second penalty so total is 40 places. A new

ZFPx2 penalty

would be 40% in that example.`BUT, of course, that would change depending on the fleet`

size. Now

assume Low Point System and regatta with 16 entrants. DNF

would be 16+1

or 17. 20% of 17 is 3.4 rounded to nearest whole number of

3. So, two

20% penalties would be 3 places + 3 places or 6 places. A

new ZFPx2

penalty would be ~35% in that example.`I think you'd be better off calculating the number of`

places for a ZFPx2

penalty for a regatta and setting it as a fixed number

rather than

trying to come up with a percentage that will vary based

on fleet size.

The result would be the same but I think the logic is

easier to follow

with a fixed number. Unfortunately, for an event longer

than a regatta

(a long series, for example) DNF is “boats that came to

the starting

area plus one” per A9 so you’ll probably have to adjust

either the fixed

number of places or the percentage for each race. A bit

more complicated.`CAVEAT - Some classes and events score DNF differently`

than “entrants

(or boats that came to the starting area) plus one” and

instead you will

sometimes see “finishers plus 2.” Again, that would mean

the fixed

number or percentage could change for every race.`Art On 8/14/2018 12:29 PM, [sailwave]`

wrote:

Hi Rebecca,

You need to create a new scoring code from the

current ZFP code. This is

done by highlighting the ZFP code then clicking the

new button on the

right hand side.

The new code should called New ZFP.

Click the new code and click the edit button the

right hand side.

Suggest you change code name to ZFPx2 then change 20%

to 44%

Now save the changes.Apply the code to the competitor concerned.

How did I get 44%?

taking 100 as an example, 20% of 100 is 20 therefore

total becomes 120.

Now 20% of 120 is 24 therefore total now becomes 144.

So to get same

result of applying 20% to a score and then a further

20% to the new

value you need 44%.Unfortunately tthis is what you need to do in

Sailwave.Hope that all makes sense.

Kind regards,

Huw

Virus-free. www.avast.com