A single helm using different boats during a handicap series

Colin Jenkins wrote:

What about if you could specify the class as well as the rating in the
'per race' window (edit+race). Then the PY wizard has enough knowledge
to send back the correct class...?

Sounds like a start. Probably doesn't solve the how you display it on a
series summary for which I'd be tempted to have a sub-entry. Nor can
it allocated points to crew I don't think.

How did people resolve it when doing returns manually?

Doesn't seem too tricky - because returns don't really need to know
about series - only individual races.

As regard to publishing and screen layout - I can't think of any
solution other than putting 'various' or 'laser, rs200, dart18' for
example in a spare field and publishing tthat instead of the default
class field.

The ideal (no idea what underlying code would be needed) would be to have:

Rank Helm Crew SailNo Class R1 R2 R3 R4 Net

···

=======================================================================
1 J Bloggs - 10001 Laser 1 6 (DNC) 3 10

2 J Smith - various 2 2 (3) 1 5
  " 10002 Mirror 2 2 - -
        " 10003 Topper - - 3 1

etc

For the sceptics who say that switching boat is a good idea for
conditions - that it may be but remember you then need to be able to
sail two (or maybe more) boats well!. Most of our boat switches are
crewed and single handed - eg GP-14 sailor who also owns a topper and
races the topper when his crew doesn't show up...

Cheers
Colin J
sailwave.com, mysail.co.uk

mysail seems dead at least on firefox?

Currently I score using sailwave wizard. For standard club races we
don't have a subscription process to the race so I tend to start with a
clean sheet for each series and then add a sailor as and when necessary.

However we have fleet and handicap starts which get entered as times and
places based on starts. It would be helpful if when I enter 1001 as a
sailnumber that isn't recognised and hit NEW instead of adding a blank
entry with sail No 1001 it would allow me to open the new competitor
window for 1001 and add his details - at least his class. Then when I
save that entry it return to the sailnumber wizard now shoing the new entry?

C

Actually it is really clear, just follow along the bouncing ball.

A4 discusses the points that are to be assigned in a Regatta whatever scoring system is being used (Low Point vs Bonus Point). A5 grants the authority to the Race Committee to assign the "score" to a competitor. Any positions or scores outside of those listed must be assigned by a Protest Committee following a hearing. The points assigned to the score are what is outlined in A4.

The score of a competitor is not the points assigned. As an example, a competitor is on the wrong side of the start line at the start. The Race Committee records the competitor as OCS after the boat does not exonerate themselves. In the finish report, the competitor is scored a position of OCS. When the results person (aka "scorer") calculates the results, they assign the appropriate points for the score of OCS to the competitor and this now becomes the record of the race. If however the Race Committee observed that a competitor did not sail the race course properly (touched a mark and did not exonerate themselves) they cannot assign a score of DSQ to the competitor because the competitor did in fact clear the finish line within the time limits. The Race Committee must then file a protest against the competitor and report their observations to the Protest Committee who will decide the outcome and amend the finish score as appropriate, and the Scorer would then update the race records accordingly and assign the points appropriate.

Basically, the Race Committee is not and cannot be expected to "police" the activity outside of their area of control - the start and finish line. A4 and A5 delineates these responsibilities.

The biggest reasons for separating the two is that they are two separate actions, and more importantly the RRS allows those paragraphs to be amended / changed by the Sailing Instructions.

Confused more now?

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Calum Polwart <yahoo@...> wrote:

Mike wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Calum Polwart <yahoo@> wrote:
>>
>> Appendix A doesn't define the score for a DNF.
>>
> "A4.2 A boat that did not start, did not finish, retired after finishing
> or was disqualified shall be scored points for the finishing place one
> more than the number of boats entered in the series."
> Isn't that a definition?

Indeed it is! But can someone then explain A5:

A5 SCORES DETERMINED BY THE RACE COMMITTEE

A boat that did not start, comply with rule 30.2 or 30.3, or finish, or
that takes a penalty under rule 44.3(a) or retires after finishing,
shall be scored accordingly by the race committee without a hearing.
Only the protest committee may take other scoring actions that worsen a
boat’s score.

Does that mean shall be scored according to rule A4.2... ...cause thats
NOT what it says. To me it says the race committee will determine the
score! (I am not a judge or anything like that - just a computer geek
who gets the treat of sorting the club results... ...who then is
expected to understand lots of very amiguous phrases in SIs that when i
go back and question what they mean people say "oh it doesn't mean
that!"... )

C

Handicap with effect from a particular race (as exists for the Handicap at
present) would seem to fit the need. At present, the “printout”
of individual races picks up the individual race handicap, so if it could also
pick up the individual race Class, that would give us the series result we are
looking for, and a set of readily understandable individual race results. The
overall summary table shows the “entry form” handicap, so it would
be reasonable enough for it to show the “entry form” Class, as that
should be consistent with the handicap.

The debate about whether or not it is a good idea to allow
something such as a change of boat mid-series is all very well, but doesn’t
really impact on the issue of whether or not the tool for scoring the series
can cope with it. My Club has long had SI’s which allow it, so it would
be great if the scoring tool, which has so many other powerful and desirable
features, could cope with it!

Ian Day

···

From my point of view, the ability to specify Class and


From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colin Jenkins
Sent: 06 November 2009 10:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: A
single helm using different boats during a handicap series

What
about if you could specify the class as well as the rating in the ‘per
race’ window (edit+race). Then the PY wizard has enough knowledge
to send back the correct class…?

How did people resolve it when doing returns manually?

As regard to publishing and screen layout - I can’t think of any solution other
than putting ‘various’ or ‘laser, rs200, dart18’ for example in a spare field
and publishing tthat instead of the default class field.

PS: I agree with whoever said that there is too much post processing after
sending results to the RYA - IMO it’s totally unnecessary - but it’s out of may
hands by that time… I voiced my tentative opinion about why it happens
to the RYA tech head when I was at Sail for Gold. But it was potentially
slandouous so I can’t repeat it here.

Cheers

Colin J

sailwave.com, mysail.co.uk

Calum Polwart wrote:

Harvey, John wrote:



When entering the results there is a 2nt tab where you can change the
rating used for that race.
The results go against the person/primary boat but for that race are
calculated using the correct handicap.
It will show the boat as being the original one but in the per race
results you will see the correct handicap.
I don't believe aliases work for this.
John



Think this is the third similar request recently.  Colin - any hope of
putting something in for the future that makes this more possible?

Requests have been:

- Helm and Crew based scoring (Crew gets same points as helm), Helm &
Crew can change boat several times in series.
- Helm changing boat

Ailias definitely doesn't help!

While changing the rating works - the results table will appear as
though a Firefly sailed when a Laser did.  If you sailed the race and
know there was no Firefly in the race you become very confused!!

Ta

C


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As John says, we use the Rating tab to change the pY for a race where a helm has decided to sail a different boat. Unfortunately when uploading to the RYA site, other than manually selecting NO to wether you wish to use the result for that boat, there is no means to correct the issue and so the only option is not to use this result.

In order to get the systems aligned I think the easiest solution would be to somehow identify the class that the helm raced in a particular race.

As has been mentioned below, some clubs dont like the idea of allowing helms to sail multiple boats in a single series, but where clubs like ours exist then we need a method of a) calculating the result and b) allowing returns to be made.

So Colin, can you add this functionality into the next update?

Paul

···

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
From: ian54day@btinternet.com
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:07:00 +0100
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: A single helm using different boats during a handicap series

From my point of view, the ability to specify Class and Handicap with effect from a particular race (as exists for the Handicap at present) would seem to fit the need. At present, the “printout” of individual races picks up the individual race handicap, so if it could also pick up the individual race Class, that would give us the series result we are looking for, and a set of readily understandable individual race results. The overall summary table shows the “entry form” handicap, so it would be reasonable enough for it to show the “entry form” Class, as that should be consistent with the handicap.

The debate about whether or not it is a good idea to allow something such as a change of boat mid-series is all very well, but doesn’t really impact on the issue of whether or not the tool for scoring the series can cope with it. My Club has long had SI’s which allow it, so it would be great if the scoring tool, which has so many other powerful and desirable features, could cope with it!

Ian Day


From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colin Jenkins
Sent: 06 November 2009 10:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: A single helm using different boats during a handicap series

What about if you could specify the class as well as the rating in the ‘per race’ window (edit+race). Then the PY wizard has enough knowledge to send back the correct class…?

How did people resolve it when doing returns manually?

As regard to publishing and screen layout - I can’t think of any solution other than putting ‘various’ or ‘laser, rs200, dart18’ for example in a spare field and publishing tthat instead of the default class field.

PS: I agree with whoever said that there is too much post processing after sending results to the RYA - IMO it’s totally unnecessary - but it’s out of may hands by that time… I voiced my tentative opinion about why it happens to the RYA tech head when I was at Sail for Gold. But it was potentially slandouous so I can’t repeat it here.

Cheers
Colin J
sailwave.com, mysail.co.uk

Calum Polwart wrote:

Harvey, John wrote:
 
 
 
When entering the results there is a 2nt tab where you can change the
rating used for that race.
The results go against the person/primary boat but for that race are
calculated using the correct handicap.
It will show the boat as being the original one but in the per race
results you will see the correct handicap.
I don't believe aliases work for this.
John
 
   
 
Think this is the third similar request recently.  Colin - any hope of
putting something in for the future that makes this more possible?
 
Requests have been:
 
- Helm and Crew based scoring (Crew gets same points as helm), Helm &
Crew can change boat several times in series.
- Helm changing boat
 
Ailias definitely doesn't help!
 
While changing the rating works - the results table will appear as
though a Firefly sailed when a Laser did.  If you sailed the race and
know there was no Firefly in the race you become very confused!!
 
Ta
 
C
 
 
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This isn't a bad explanation but I think it might be improved.

The "score" of a boat is both the points and the abbreviations from A11
(I suppose technically you might say the score is just the points but
that wouldn't really be complete so I would include both).

Rule A4 deals with two of MANY possible scoring systems (and so
therefore rule A4.2 deals only with those two systems).

Rule A5 kind of says the same thing as A4.2 for the two systems in rule
A4 but of course it also covers ALL of the other systems as well.
However, the real point of A5 is the second sentence saying that actions
other than scoring boats according to their finishing position or those
things listed in the first sentence must be done by the protest
committee. The first sentence is there so we can define "other actions"
by referring to it (we cannot refer to Rule 4 since that is only one of
many possible systems). [If you look at the history of this I believe
you will find that once upon a time the RC was allowed to score boats as
DSQ for not sailing the correct course. That is NOT allowed today and
the second sentence says that!]

The main point to take away is that Appendix A tells us how to score a
boat that is DNF under the Low Point and Bonus Point systems but it
doesn't tell us what to do with respect to other systems. We have to do
that ourselves when we right our sailing instructions.

Art

Actually it is really clear, just follow along the bouncing ball.

A4 discusses the points that are to be assigned in a Regatta whatever

scoring system is being used (Low Point vs Bonus Point). A5 grants the
authority to the Race Committee to assign the "score" to a competitor.
Any positions or scores outside of those listed must be assigned by a
Protest Committee following a hearing. The points assigned to the score
are what is outlined in A4.

The score of a competitor is not the points assigned. As an example, a

competitor is on the wrong side of the start line at the start. The Race
Committee records the competitor as OCS after the boat does not
exonerate themselves. In the finish report, the competitor is scored a
position of OCS. When the results person (aka "scorer") calculates the
results, they assign the appropriate points for the score of OCS to the
competitor and this now becomes the record of the race. If however the
Race Committee observed that a competitor did not sail the race course
properly (touched a mark and did not exonerate themselves) they cannot
assign a score of DSQ to the competitor because the competitor did in
fact clear the finish line within the time limits. The Race Committee
must then file a protest against the competitor and report their
observations to the Protest Committee who will decide the outcome and
amend the finish score as appropriate, and the Scorer would then update
the race records accordingly and assign the points appropriate.

Basically, the Race Committee is not and cannot be expected to

"police" the activity outside of their area of control - the start and
finish line. A4 and A5 delineates these responsibilities.

The biggest reasons for separating the two is that they are two

separate actions, and more importantly the RRS allows those paragraphs
to be amended / changed by the Sailing Instructions.

Confused more now?

>
> Mike wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com>,

> > Calum Polwart <yahoo@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Appendix A doesn't define the score for a DNF.
> >>
> > "A4.2 A boat that did not start, did not finish, retired after

finishing

> > or was disqualified shall be scored points for the finishing place

one

> > more than the number of boats entered in the series."
> > Isn't that a definition?
>
> Indeed it is! But can someone then explain A5:
>
> A5 SCORES DETERMINED BY THE RACE COMMITTEE
>
> A boat that did not start, comply with rule 30.2 or 30.3, or finish,

or

> that takes a penalty under rule 44.3(a) or retires after finishing,
> shall be scored accordingly by the race committee without a hearing.
> Only the protest committee may take other scoring actions that

worsen a

> boat’s score.
>
> Does that mean shall be scored according to rule A4.2... ...cause

thats

> NOT what it says. To me it says the race committee will determine

the

> score! (I am not a judge or anything like that - just a computer

geek

> who gets the treat of sorting the club results... ...who then is
> expected to understand lots of very amiguous phrases in SIs that

when i

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "bvisser959" <bvisser1@...> wrote:

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Calum Polwart yahoo@ wrote:
> go back and question what they mean people say "oh it doesn't mean
> that!"... )
>
> C
>

From my point of view, the ability to specify Class and
Handicap with effect from a particular race (as exists for
the Handicap at present) would seem to fit the need. At
present, the "printout" of individual races picks up the
individual race handicap, so if it could also pick up the
individual race Class, that would give us the series result
we are looking for, and a set of readily understandable
individual race results.

Agreed, but with the crew as well :wink:

The overall summary table shows
the "entry form" handicap, so it would be reasonable enough
for it to show the "entry form" Class, as that should be
consistent with the handicap.

But if your club allows 'helm' entries, then surely you only want the helm to appear in the overall results table (not class, sail no, handicap, crew)?

The debate about whether or not it is a good idea to allow
something such as a change of boat mid-series is all very
well, but doesn't really impact on the issue of whether or
not the tool for scoring the series can cope with it. My
Club has long had SI's which allow it, so it would be great
if the scoring tool, which has so many other powerful and
desirable features, could cope with it!

Agree with the desirability of scoring by helm as some clubs prefer it (just disagree with the underlying concept).

Mike
Lancing SC

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Day" <ian54day@...> wrote:

Have only recently downloaded the software, looking forward to using this year. I know this is an old thread, but on looking through the update history I couldn't see any reference to this issue.

At our club, helms make extensive use of different boats within a given series - to encourage participation, club members can use boats owned by the club, and may change between these, or their own boats, as availability allows.

Would very much like to be able to use this feature as soon as it is developed! In terms of display, I would think that individual race sheets should show the relevant class (and handicap); summary sheets should show 'Various'. Might be nice to be able to show crew names on summary sheets, with 'various' also shown here where relevant.

On a related note, does having different helms on the same boat within a series cause any problems?

Also, we are trialling a rating supplement for under 16s and beginners - (a flat-rate figure for both, irrespective of class). Is there a way for these categories to apply an automatic adjustment to the class rating for these competitors?

Many thanks.

Mark

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mdcroker@...> wrote:

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Day" <ian54day@> wrote:
>
> From my point of view, the ability to specify Class and
> Handicap with effect from a particular race (as exists for
> the Handicap at present) would seem to fit the need. At
> present, the "printout" of individual races picks up the
> individual race handicap, so if it could also pick up the
> individual race Class, that would give us the series result
> we are looking for, and a set of readily understandable
> individual race results.

Agreed, but with the crew as well :wink:

> The overall summary table shows
> the "entry form" handicap, so it would be reasonable enough
> for it to show the "entry form" Class, as that should be
> consistent with the handicap.

But if your club allows 'helm' entries, then surely you only want the helm to appear in the overall results table (not class, sail no, handicap, crew)?

>
>
>
> The debate about whether or not it is a good idea to allow
> something such as a change of boat mid-series is all very
> well, but doesn't really impact on the issue of whether or
> not the tool for scoring the series can cope with it. My
> Club has long had SI's which allow it, so it would be great
> if the scoring tool, which has so many other powerful and
> desirable features, could cope with it!
>

Agree with the desirability of scoring by helm as some clubs prefer it (just disagree with the underlying concept).

Mike
Lancing SC

Mark,

Sailwave can handle this but at the moment its not supported by the PYS online system.

When you enter the start /finish times for a particular boat, the final tab in the results entry box allows you to give a rating which you can either use just for that race or continue with for the rest of the series.

We adopt the same arrangements as you at our club, ie. Helms can sail anyboat throughout the series. so if someone enters a series in an ISO but sails a race in a Sprint 15, then we put the rating for a Sprint 15 in the box in the final tab.

5

Unfortunately there is no way currently of identifying the particular boat sailed in that race, as the title will still have the originally sailed class in it, but I guess this is something on the list of items to possibly add soon.

If you are using the new online PYS system, then you will need to remove this result in PYS otherwise it will confuse the handicap that its correcting.

I hope this helps.

Paul

···

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
From: my_random_address@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 23:54:40 +0000
Subject: [sailwave] Re: A single helm using different boats during a handicap series

Have only recently downloaded the software, looking forward to using this year. I know this is an old tshread, but on looking through the update history I couldn’t see any reference to this issue.

At our club, helms make extensive use of different boats within a given series - to encourage participation, club members can use boats owned by the club, and may change between these, or their own boats, as availability allows.

Would very much like to be able to use this feature as soon as it is developed! In terms of display, I would think that individual race sheets should show the relevant class (and handicap); summary sheets should show ‘Various’. Might be nice to be able to show crew names on summary sheets, with ‘various’ also shown here where relevant.

On a related note, does having different helms on the same boat within a series cause any problems?

Also, we are trialling a rating supplement for under 16s and beginners - (a flat-rate figure for both, irrespective of class). Is there a way for these categories to apply an automatic adjustment to the class rating for these competitors?

Many thanks.

Mark

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, “Mike” <mdcroker@…> wrote:

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, “Ian Day” <ian54day@> wrote:

From my point of view, the ability to specify Class and
Handicap with effect from a particular race (as exists for
the Handicap at present) would seem to fit the need. At
present, the “printout” of individual races picks up the
individual race handicap, so if it could also pick up the
individual race Class, that would give us the series result
we are looking for, and a set of readily understandable
individual race results.

Agreed, but with the crew as well :wink:

The overall summary table shows
the “entry form” handicap, so it would be reasonable enough
for it to show the “entry form” Class, as that should be
consistent with the handicap.

But if your club allows ‘helm’ entries, then surely you only want the helm to appear in the overall results table (not class, sail no, handicap, crew)?

The debate about whether or not it is a good idea to allow
something such as a change of boat mid-series is all very
well, but doesn’t really impact on the issue of whether or
not the tool for scoring the series can cope with it. My
Club has long had SI’s which allow it, so it would be great
if the scoring tool, which has so many other powerful and
desirable features, could cope with it!

Agree with the desirability of scoring by helm as some clubs prefer it (just disagree with the underlying concept).

Mike
Lancing SC


We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. Tell us now

Mike,

We too award season points to the skipper and allow the skipper to switch boats during the season. The book keeping is a bit of trouble but it does get an occasional boat on the water when conditions and crew problems might keep someone home.

I have found it simplest to run 2 sets of books – one set for the weekend races and one for the season. After the weekend handicap scoring is done I print it out and reenter positions only into the season series. It really goes quickly using the sail number wizard set to HELM. This is where discards and OOD adjustments occur.

…Gil

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
m_sumner

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:54 PM

Subject: [sailwave] Re: A single helm using different boats during a handicap series

Have only recently downloaded the software, looking forward to using this year. I know this is an old thread, but on looking through the update history I couldn’t see any reference to this issue.

At our club, helms make extensive use of different boats within a given series - to encourage participation, club members can use boats owned by the club, and may change between these, or their own boats, as availability allows.

Would very much like to be able to use this feature as soon as it is developed! In terms of display, I would think that individual race sheets should show the relevant class (and handicap); summary sheets should show ‘Various’. Might be nice to be able to show crew names on summary sheets, with ‘various’ also shown here where relevant.

On a related note, does having different helms on the same boat within a series cause any problems?

Also, we are trialling a rating supplement for under 16s and beginners - (a flat-rate figure for both, irrespective of class). Is there a way for these categories to apply an automatic adjustment to the class rating for these competitors?

Many thanks.

Mark

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com , “Mike” <mdcroker@…> wrote:

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com , “Ian Day” <ian54day@> wrote:

From my point of view, the ability to specify Class and
Handicap with effect from a particular race (as exists for
the Handicap at present) would seem to fit the need. At
present, the “printout” of individual races picks up the
individual race handicap, so if it could also pick up the
individual race Class, that would give us the series result
we are looking for, and a set of readily understandable
individual race results.

Agreed, but with the crew as well :wink:

The overall summary table shows
the “entry form” handicap, so it would be reasonable enough
for it to show the “entry form” Class, as that should be
consistent with the handicap.

But if your club allows ‘helm’ entries, then surely you only want the helm to appear in the overall results table (not class, sail no, handicap, crew)?

The debate about whether or not it is a good idea to allow
something such as a change of boat mid-series is all very
well, but doesn’t really impact on the issue of whether or
not the tool for scoring the series can cope with it. My
Club has long had SI’s which allow it, so it would be great
if the scoring tool, which has so many other powerful and
desirable features, could cope with it!

Agree with the desirability of scoring by helm as some clubs prefer it (just disagree with the underlying concept).

Mike
Lancing SC

The software as it stands can cope with scoring by helm
rather than by boat, but it is a bit clunky, and the presentation of the
results may leave some observers a bit confused.

If you add your competitors to the entry list for the series
in the usual way, as they come along over the course of the first few races,
you put them in in the first place with the boat that they sail in the first
race in which they compete. Then for subsequent races where they are sailing a
different boat, you can go into the “Edit competitor” window, and
change things like Class and name of boat, if you want the results for that
race to look sensible. Beware, though, that if you then output Series results,
the last boat type and name entered will appear for the whole series!

There seems to be no problem with having the same boat
against several competitors, as long as you do everything by Helm Name.

As an alternative, if you are not worried about the look of
any particular race results, you can give the competitors who change boats a
special Class of “Various”, and then use the “Edit Result”
window to set the correct handicap race by race.

Colin did say, when I raised the question six months or so
ago, that he was going to think about doing something better adapted in a
future release, but I guess that is still as far as the subject has progressed!

Ian Day

···

From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of m_sumner
Sent: 09 March 2010 00:55
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: A single
helm using different boats during a handicap series

Have only recently downloaded the software, looking
forward to using this year. I know this is an old thread, but on looking
through the update history I couldn’t see any reference to this issue.

At our club, helms make extensive use of different boats within a given series

  • to encourage participation, club members can use boats owned by the club, and
    may change between these, or their own boats, as availability allows.

Would very much like to be able to use this feature as soon as it is developed!
In terms of display, I would think that individual race sheets should show the
relevant class (and handicap); summary sheets should show ‘Various’. Might be
nice to be able to show crew names on summary sheets, with ‘various’ also shown
here where relevant.

On a related note, does having different helms on the same boat within a series
cause any problems?

Also, we are trialling a rating supplement for under 16s and beginners - (a
flat-rate figure for both, irrespective of class). Is there a way for these categories
to apply an automatic adjustment to the class rating for these competitors?

Many thanks.

Mark

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com,
“Mike” <mdcroker@…> wrote:

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com,
“Ian Day” <ian54day@> wrote:

From my point of view, the ability to specify Class and

Handicap with effect from a particular race (as exists for

the Handicap at present) would seem to fit the need. At

present, the “printout” of individual races picks up the

individual race handicap, so if it could also pick up the

individual race Class, that would give us the series result

we are looking for, and a set of readily understandable

individual race results.

Agreed, but with the crew as well :wink:

The overall summary table shows

the “entry form” handicap, so it would be reasonable enough

for it to show the “entry form” Class, as that should be

consistent with the handicap.

But if your club allows ‘helm’ entries, then surely you only want the helm
to appear in the overall results table (not class, sail no, handicap, crew)?

The debate about whether or not it is a good idea to allow

something such as a change of boat mid-series is all very

well, but doesn’t really impact on the issue of whether or

not the tool for scoring the series can cope with it. My

Club has long had SI’s which allow it, so it would be great

if the scoring tool, which has so many other powerful and

desirable features, could cope with it!

Agree with the desirability of scoring by helm as some clubs prefer it
(just disagree with the underlying concept).

Mike

Lancing SC

New events system... will it be able to handle this functionality?

And also would iot be able to handle points for crews functionality

C

my design has the user defining the competitor
fields they want to use (as opposed to the fixed set in the current
sailwave) and the user being able to specify any of them as race
specific values. so you could have race specific values for class with
a fixed competitor - or ‘enter’ the boat into the competition and have
race specific values for the helm.

in terms of the scoring itself - i will supply appendix a and later
addendum c - but users can write their own scoring systems. the plan
it so build a user community contributing stuff. with sailwave itself
being a minimal shell/platform.

cj

Calum Polwart wrote:

···

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/http://www.sailing.org/http://www.sailwave.com/http://www.abyc.org/upload/Sailwave_ABYC_User_Guide_2009-08-21.pdfsailwave-digest@yahoogroups.comsailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/joinsailwave-digest@yahoogroups.comsailwave-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.comsailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comhttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/www.avg.com

Colin,

Thats all well and good but when you use the RYA upload function will it enable you to use all the results? For me thats the biggest issue in that currently you have to delete the results where someone sailed a different boat.

Paul

···

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
From: colin@sailwave.com
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:19:28 +0000
Subject: Re: [sailwave] New Online System… A single helm using different boats during a handicap series

my design has the user defining the competitor fields they want to use (as opposed to the fixed set in the current sailwave) and the user being able to specify any of them as race specific values. so you could have race specific values for class with a fixed competitor - or ‘enter’ the boat into the competition and have race specific values for the helm.

in terms of the scoring itself - i will supply appendix a and later addendum c - but users can write their own scoring systems. the plan it so build a user community contributing stuff. with sailwave itself being a minimal shell/platform.

cj

Calum Polwart wrote:


New events system... will it be able to handle this functionality?
And also would iot be able to handle points for crews functionality
C
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No virus found in this incoming message.
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Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell us now

As I understand it, Colin wishes to provide a basic platform to cope with normal fleet racing (one design and handicap). If you do somewhat non-standard fleet racing things (and I class allowing a helm to score in a series uses different boats as non-standard, along with team racing, match racing and olympic scoring!) then you're on you own, but the new Sailwave will be flexible enough to allow users to produce their own add-ons. In your case that might be a module to rescore a series by helm, rather than boat, once you have done the RYA upload.
Mike
Lancing SC

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Paul Craig <sailtastic@...> wrote:

Colin,
Thats all well and good but when you use the RYA upload function will > it enable you to use all the results? For me thats the biggest issue > in that currently you have to delete the results where someone sailed > a different boat.

yes, because of the ability to define race
specific fields like class. i expect the uload facility to be a ‘user
script’ 100% - but written by me. think of sailwave as a sailing
development environment.

cj

Paul Craig wrote:

···

sailwave@yahoogroups.com
colin@sailwave.com

my design has the user
defining the competitor fields they want to use (as opposed to the
fixed set in the current sailwave) and the user being able to specify
any of them as race specific values. so you could have race specific
values for class with a fixed competitor - or ‘enter’ the boat into the
competition and have race specific values for the helm.

in terms of the scoring itself - i will supply appendix a and later
addendum c - but users can write their own scoring systems. the plan
it so build a user community contributing stuff. with sailwave itself
being a minimal shell/platform.

cj

Calum Polwart wrote:


New events system... will it be able to handle this functionality?
And also would iot be able to handle points for crews functionality
C
------------------------------
------
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Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2761 - Release Date: 03/21/10 07:33:00

Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell
us now


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</details>

correct. i think of it as a sailing scoring
development environment.

ps: I am using Python as the language and PyQt as the UI interafce as
it provides an elegant user interface across Windows/*unix/Mac.

CJ

Mike wrote:

···

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