As the scorer send this one back to the protest committee and request they clarify their scoring instructions.
It seems the result the protest committee wants is 1st Tim, 2nd Hal. The result on the water was 1st Hal, 2nd Tim. You need to know which rules they are using to get to the desired result so that the results can have the correct scoring codes.
Request clarification of the following; what are the facts found, what rules apply, which boats scores should be adjusted, and which rule is being used to adjust each score. Specifically how did the protest committee find in respect to the following rules?
- Rule 64.1(a) requires that if Hal was found to have broken a rule he should be disqualified, unless some other penalty applies. I don’t see any other penalty applying?
- Under which part of Rule 62 are they granting redress to Hal? If anyone the redress should be to Tim? Although I don’t see how they can give redress to anyone given the described situation.
- Under 64.2 they can “make as fair an arrangement as possible for all boats affected”, however there are more boats affected than just Hal and Tim. What about Rebecca, who as a result of the protest and the granted redress will no longer win the Winter Series, was this considered?
If they want the result that you have expressed, then they should have issued scoring instructions along the following lines:
- Redress is granted under Rule 64.1(?), the following scoring adjustments shall be made under Rule 64.2.
-
Tim shall be granted redress and receive points for 1st place. Score = RDG 1.0
-
Hal shall not be disqualified and shall instead receive a scoring penalty and receive one additional point for a total of two points. Score = SCP 2.0
-
All other boats scores shall remain the same.
Given the facts I don’t see how a Protest Committee can grant redress under 64.1, but that is not the scorers problem, that is what the appeals process is in place to handle!
And once they make their mind up it will take you 30 seconds to score in SailWave thanks to Colin…
I have listed the rules below for reference.
44.3 Scoring Penalty
(a) A boat takes a Scoring Penalty by displaying a yellow flag at the first reasonable opportunity after the incident.
62 REDRESS
62.1 A request for redress or a protest committees decision to consider redress shall be based on a claim or possibility that a boats score in a race or series has, through no fault of her own, been made significantly worse by
(a) an improper action or omission of the race committee, protest committee or organizing authority, but not by a protest committee decision when the boat was a party to the hearing;
(b) injury or physical damage because of the action of a boat that was breaking a rule of Part 2 or of a vessel not racing that was required to keep clear;
© giving help (except to herself or her crew) in compliance with rule 1.1; or
(d) a boat against which a penalty has been imposed under rule 2 or disciplinary action has been taken under rule 69.1(b).
64 DECISIONS
64.1 Penalties and Exoneration
(a) When the protest committee decides that a boat that is a
64.2 Decisions on Redress
party to a protest hearing has broken a rule, it shall disqualify her unless some other penalty applies. A penalty shall be imposed whether or not the applicable rule was mentioned in the protest.****
When the protest committee decides that a boat is entitled to redress under rule 62, it shall make as fair an arrangement as possible for all boats affected, whether or not they asked for redress. This may be to adjust the scoring (see rule A10 for some examples) or finishing times of boats, to abandon the race, to let the results stand or to make some other arrangement. When in doubt about the facts or probable results of any arrangement for the race or series, especially before abandoning the race, the protest committee shall take evidence from appropriate sources.
A6 CHANGES IN PLACES AND SCORES OF OTHER BOATS
A10 GUIDANCE ON REDRESS
A6.2 If the protest committee decides to give redress by adjusting a boats score, the scores of other boats shall not be changed unless the protest committee decides otherwise.
If the protest committee decides to give redress by adjusting a boats score for a race, it is advised to consider scoring her
(a) points equal to the average, to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05 to be rounded upward), of her points in all the races in the series except the race in question;
(b) points equal to the average, to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05 to be rounded upward), of her points in all the races before the race in question; or
© points based on the position of the boat in the race at the time of the incident that justified redress.
···
From: Terry
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:56 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Points change for 1st place
This is an interesting twist as now it has a different Series Winner as a tiebreaker.
If Hal is scored 1st but receives a one point penalty, and Tim remains second, who receives the trophy for R5?
I believe the point of the protest was for Tim to receive the crucial 1 point instead of 2 for the series. I also believe the 1st place was awarded to Tim on the day of the race.
Any thoughts?
Terry
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of S. Mark Townsend
Sent: 31 March 2009 04:58
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Points change for 1st place
I am not sure that the protest committee can uphold the protest and give redress, but that is a different problem…
The reason for the 1.5 is because you have two boats tied for first, so they split the points for 1st and 2nd.
If the protest committee’s decision was to uphold the protest and give redress by giving Hal a 1 point penalty.
Then shouldn’t Hal be scored 1st plus a 1 point scoring penalty and Tim should remain 2nd.
GYC Dinghy Winter Series 08/09
Greenwich Yacht Club
Results as of 20:57 on March 30, 2009
Overall
Sailed:6, Discards:1, To count:5, Ratings:PY, Entries:15, Scoring system:Appendix A
Rank
Skipper
R1
R2
R3
R4
R5
R6
Total
Nett
Notes
1st
Rebecca Scott
1.0
1.0
5.0
3.0
(15.0 DNF)
7.0
32.0
17.0
2nd
Tim Jeffries
2.0
2.0
7.0
4.0
2.0
(8.0)
25.0
17.0
3rd
Nick Fossey
(16.0 DNC)
3.0
3.0
1.0
15.0 DNF
1.0
39.0
23.0
4th
Steve Wilson
3.0
(16.0 DNC)
4.0
2.0
16.0 DNC
3.0
44.0
28.0
5th
Brian Harrison
(16.0 DNC)
4.0
6.0
16.0 DNC
5.0
2.0
49.0
33.0
6th
Tony Norwell
5.0
(16.0 DNC)
2.0
16.0 DNC
3.0
16.0 DNC
58.0
42.0
7th
Dan Groves
7.0
(16.0 DNC)
10.0 OOD
6.0
15.0 DNF
6.0
60.0
44.0
8th
Lucy Preston
(16.0 DNC)
5.0
16.0 DNC
7.0
16.0 DNC
5.0
65.0
49.0
9th
Toby Denham
(16.0 DNC)
16.0 DNC
1.0
16.0 DNC
4.0
16.0 DNC
69.0
53.0
10th
Richard Senior
4.0
(16.0 DNC)
16.0 DNC
5.0
16.0 DNC
16.0 DNC
73.0
57.0
11th
Simon Powell
(16.0 DNC)
16.0 DNC
8.0
16.0 DNC
6.0
16.0 DNC
78.0
62.0
12th
Hal Andrews
(16.0 DNC)
16.0 DNC
16.0 DNC
16.0 DNC
2.0 SCP+1
16.0 DNC
82.0
66.0
13th
Mark
(16.0 DNC)
16.0 DNC
16.0 DNC
16.0 DNC
16.0 DNC
4.0
84.0
68.0
14th
Louise Weight
6.0
(16.0 DNC)
16.0 DNC
16.0 DNC
16.0 DNC
16.0 DNC
86.0
70.0
15th
Frances
(16.0 DNC)
16.0 DNC
15.0 DNS
16.0 DNC
16.0 DNC
16.0 DNC
95.0
79.0
Sailwave Scoring Software 2.00 build 3
www.sailwave.com
From: Terry
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 2:41 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Points change for 1st place
Thank you for all the great responses, slowly starting to make a bit of sense of it all now.
Hal finished first in race 5 and Tim finished second. The race was scored and entered as such. Then shortly after the boats came off the water the OOD was informed of the protest and a protest committee was called. The decided to uphold the protest and give redress by giving Hal a 1 point penalty to effectively put him into second place and Tim into first place.
Now as Sailwave user, I merely followed the OOD instructions updated Hals, score to RDG and entered the points to two. I can not recall now as this was some time ago, but I guess I must have changed Tim to 1st place to effectively show the results correctly.
From what is described, I should not have done it in this way. In my defence I would say it seemed the logical way to do it at the time, it seemed to work as it was intended. It was only when race 6 was entered that the confusion came about. Not sure we how such a situation can be avoided for other novice users in the future.
I have uploaded the results with race 6 as I had it before (as somebody asked for this)
http://www.greenwichyachtclub.co.uk/racing/0809dinghywinterseries6.blw
I have now changed Hals score to 15th for race 5 with RDG and rescored which provided the results as I expected. (Although I was not aware that 3rd place would become second and not sure this is what the race committee wanted. But alas’ the final standings stay the same and I will know what to do next time round. 
Regards
Terry
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of S. Mark Townsend
Sent: 30 March 2009 14:53
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Points change for 1st place
The file shows that you had a tie on the water for first place between Hal and Tim, is that correct?
Hal was then given redress, scoring code RDG, for 2nd place.
I don’t see a copy of the file with 6 races scored, do you have that as well?
From: Terry
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 11:56 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Points change for 1st place
You might be on to something here, but then I am still confused as to why the score became 1.5 even if it was because of the redress.
I was also wondering whether it had anything to do with the new entry (Mark) in race 6 (or perhaps a combination of this and the Redress)
R5 Tim hailed the protest to Hal for touching a mark and thought he was heard. Hal was not aware of it and did not take a penalty turn.
No other source confirmed the mark being touched. The Protest committee decided to give redress instead of disqualify Hal.
In Sailwave I changed Hals results to RDG and the points to 2 which produced what was required by committee. (It did however change Tims results to 1)
As we can see, the next race altered Tims results to 1.5
The blw file can be downloaded from:
http://www.greenwichyachtclub.co.uk/racing/0809dinghywinterseries.blw
Thanks for the prompt and helpful response.
Regards
Terry
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of S. Mark Townsend
Sent: 30 March 2009 00:52
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Points change for 1st place
I think the problem may have started with the way the Race 5 redress was scored for Hal Andrews. What was the finding of the protest committee in respect to Hal Andrews score in race 5? Did they decide to adjust the other boats scores? If not Rule A6.2 states that *“If the protest decides to give redress by adjusting a boat’s score, the scores of other boats shall not be changed unless the protest committee decides otherwise.” * Therefore I would have expected to see the following result for race five:
Rank
Skipper
Place
Nett
Notes
1
Tim Jeffries
1
1.0
2
Hal Andrews
RDG
2.0
2
Tony Norwell
2
2.0
3
Toby Denham
3
3.0
4
Brian Harrison
4
4.0
5
Richard Senior
5
5.0
7
Rebecca Scott
DNF
13.0
7
Nick Fossey
DNF
13.0
7
Dan Groves
DNF
13.0
10
Steve Wilson
DNC
14.0
10
Lucy Preston
DNC
14.0
10
Louise Weight
DNC
14.0
10
Frances
DNC
14.0
Without being able to see the .blw file it is difficult to see why Sailwave is calculating the results in this manner.
From: Terry
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 3:22 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Points change for 1st place
Using Version 1.5 Build 5
Our series finished today with close competition between the two leaders. I
was very much looking forward to wowing them by producing results as soon as
the race finished. Nothing complicated about it. One design class so just
enter the positions for the last race and rescore for the series results.
Before todays race Tim was in the lead with 16 points. In the last race he
scored 1 point for first place.
http://www.greenwichyachtclub.co.uk/racing/0809dinghywinterseries.bak.htm
But today he did poorly and strangely so did the runner up. What I do not
understand is why, after re-scoring the series, Tim has received 1.5 points
for the last event. Why would this have changed.
Here is the score after todays race, and race5 has clearly changed the score
for the winner.
http://www.greenwichyachtclub.co.uk/racing/0809dinghywinterseries.htm
Regards
Terry