say red+green flights and blue+yellow flights sail in separate
starts/courses and have start sizes are 50 and 51 boats respectively.
presumably SIs say that DNF etc is based on the *max* start size in any one
race (in this then, based on 51) - is that right? (otherwise a DNF can beat
a finisher).
Colin J
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Affirmative
Also applies to all other scoring codes when a boat is not given a finish
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 16 May 2005 19:37
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
say red+green flights and blue+yellow flights sail in separate
starts/courses and have start sizes are 50 and 51 boats respectively.
presumably SIs say that DNF etc is based on the *max* start size in any one
race (in this then, based on 51) - is that right? (otherwise a DNF can beat
a finisher).
Colin J
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Norwegian Optimist Dinghy Assosiation says: DNF= (Add the two largest flights)+1. That is baseg on the reason that WHEN doibg flights, they ALWAYS split into 4 flights, two starts. Think it is quite common to split into n-flights in the SI. In Norway 4 flights is practical, because of the number of sailors... But in a bigger event, they often split into 6 flights - three starts...
Maybe it has to be even flights when doing this kind of flight-racing??
You may have noticed Ralph's (?) mail about 2 different kind of flight racing?
regards
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Jenkins
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:37 PM
Subject: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
say red+green flights and blue+yellow flights sail in separate
starts/courses and have start sizes are 50 and 51 boats respectively.
presumably SIs say that DNF etc is based on the *max* start size in any one
race (in this then, based on 51) - is that right? (otherwise a DNF can beat
a finisher).
Colin J
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No, not necessarily DNC, which might be the total of all groups(flights)+1.......
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Tingle
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
Affirmative
Also applies to all other scoring codes when a boat is not given a finish
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 16 May 2005 19:37
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
say red+green flights and blue+yellow flights sail in separate
starts/courses and have start sizes are 50 and 51 boats respectively.
presumably SIs say that DNF etc is based on the *max* start size in any one
race (in this then, based on 51) - is that right? (otherwise a DNF can beat
a finisher).
Colin J
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Colin
Martin's is also an option
Suggest you simply provide an option to enter the value manually rather than automatically.
SW already has this but it may be better to throw up an input window in case people forget
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Bolgen [mailto:martin@seilforening.no]
Sent: 16 May 2005 19:50
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
Norwegian Optimist Dinghy Assosiation says: DNF= (Add the two largest flights)+1. That is baseg on
the reason that WHEN doibg flights, they ALWAYS split into 4 flights, two starts. Think it is quite
common to split into n-flights in the SI. In Norway 4 flights is practical, because of the number of
sailors... But in a bigger event, they often split into 6 flights - three starts...
Maybe it has to be even flights when doing this kind of flight-racing??
You may have noticed Ralph's (?) mail about 2 different kind of flight racing?
regards
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Jenkins
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:37 PM
Subject: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
say red+green flights and blue+yellow flights sail in separate
starts/courses and have start sizes are 50 and 51 boats respectively.
presumably SIs say that DNF etc is based on the *max* start size in any one
race (in this then, based on 51) - is that right? (otherwise a DNF can beat
a finisher).
Colin J
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Hi Ralph,
Martin's is also an option
Suggest you simply provide an option to enter the value manually
rather than automatically.
SW already has this but it may be better to throw up an input
window in case people forget
It's OK, I can see a way of generalising it... I think...
Is it just me, or can this flight stuff mess with your head!
CJ
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What do they say about a can of worms? ;-((((
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Bolgen [mailto:martin@seilforening.no]
Sent: 16 May 2005 20:15
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
No, not necessarily DNC, which might be the total of all groups(flights)+1.......
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Tingle
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
Affirmative
Also applies to all other scoring codes when a boat is not given a finish
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 16 May 2005 19:37
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
say red+green flights and blue+yellow flights sail in separate
starts/courses and have start sizes are 50 and 51 boats respectively.
presumably SIs say that DNF etc is based on the *max* start size in any one
race (in this then, based on 51) - is that right? (otherwise a DNF can beat
a finisher).
Colin J
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Hi!
Hope I'm not making too much disturbance....
Ralph is very clear about flights.... Thanks!
For informative reasons, wich you might need, I'll attach the SI's we used for the "2002 European Championship for 49ers".
In the notice of race, this was stated:
Scoring and format
The Low Points Scoring System will be used. Racing will take place in fleets of approximately equal number of boats. Qualification and Final series will be held. The courses and format of racing will be detailed in the Sailing Instructions.
Regards
Martin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Martin,
Norwegian Optimist Dinghy Assosiation says: DNF= (Add the two
largest flights)+1. That is baseg on the reason that WHEN doibg
flights, they ALWAYS split into 4 flights, two starts. Think it
is quite common to split into n-flights in the SI. In Norway 4
flights is practical, because of the number of sailors... But in
a bigger event, they often split into 6 flights - three starts...
Ah, I see. More complicated than I thought.
Maybe it has to be even flights when doing this kind of flight-racing??
You may have noticed Ralph's (?) mail about 2 different kind of
flight racing?
Yes, but I'm not there yet...
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
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I do not know if it is just you, because my head has been messe up since I saw the SI I sent you in the last mail.... And that is almost 3 years ago....
(It would be nice, if SW helped me put it back together again...)
Regards,
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
Hi Ralph,
> Martin's is also an option
> Suggest you simply provide an option to enter the value manually
> rather than automatically.
> SW already has this but it may be better to throw up an input
> window in case people forgetIt's OK, I can see a way of generalising it... I think...
Is it just me, or can this flight stuff mess with your head!
CJ
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If you think flights messes with your head, wait 'til you add randomly
changing sail numbers within flights! Realistically, that is how some of
our championships are sailed with supplied boats.
Ed Muns
-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Colin Jenkins
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 12:26 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and dnf etcHi Ralph,
> Martin's is also an option
> Suggest you simply provide an option to enter the value manually
> rather than automatically.
> SW already has this but it may be better to throw up an input
> window in case people forgetIt's OK, I can see a way of generalising it... I think...
Is it just me, or can this flight stuff mess with your head!
CJ
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Martin, the SUG does not accept attachments, you need to add it to the files
section of the SUG or send to me directly..CJ.
-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Martin B�lgen
Sent: 16 May 2005 20:27
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] flights and dnf etcHi!
Hope I'm not making too much disturbance....
Ralph is very clear about flights.... Thanks!
For informative reasons, wich you might need, I'll attach the
SI's we used for the "2002 European Championship for 49ers".In the notice of race, this was stated:
Scoring and format
The Low Points Scoring System will be used. Racing will take
place in fleets of approximately equal number of boats.
Qualification and Final series will be held. The courses and
format of racing will be detailed in the Sailing Instructions.Regards
Martin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Martin,
As far as I can see that can be generalised as something like "the biggest
start in any one race" - because at some point the 2 or 3 (or 4...) biggest
flights will race eachother. The generalisation implicitly covers how many
flight there are...
Colin
www.sailwave.com
-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Martin B�lgen
Sent: 16 May 2005 19:50
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] flights and dnf etcNorwegian Optimist Dinghy Assosiation says: DNF= (Add the two
largest flights)+1. That is baseg on the reason that WHEN doibg
flights, they ALWAYS split into 4 flights, two starts. Think it
is quite common to split into n-flights in the SI. In Norway 4
flights is practical, because of the number of sailors... But in
a bigger event, they often split into 6 flights - three starts...Maybe it has to be even flights when doing this kind of flight-racing??
You may have noticed Ralph's (?) mail about 2 different kind of
flight racing?regards
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Jenkins
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:37 PM
Subject: [sailwave] flights and dnf etcsay red+green flights and blue+yellow flights sail in separate
starts/courses and have start sizes are 50 and 51 boats respectively.
presumably SIs say that DNF etc is based on the *max* start
size in any one
race (in this then, based on 51) - is that right? (otherwise a
DNF can beat
a finisher).Colin J
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Colin, If we agree on the definition of number of competitors, starters and finishers the calculations should be based upon those definitions. Given four flights Black, Blue, Red and Green. Black and Blue have 10 competitors and Green and Red have 11.
The number of competitors is equal to the maximum number of competitors that could sail in any one race. In the above example 22 when Green, Sails red.
Most races will not be concerned about number of starters or number of finishers as they are not used in any scoring codes. But for completeness.
The number of starters is equal to the number of competitors that come to the line for a specific race, and could be different between the two flight combinations for the same race #.
The number of finishers is equal to the number of competitors that complete the race for a specific race, and could be different between the two flight combinations for the same race #.
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:37:17 +0100
say red+green flights and blue+yellow flights sail in separate
starts/courses and have start sizes are 50 and 51 boats respectively.
presumably SIs say that DNF etc is based on the *max* start size in any one
race (in this then, based on 51) - is that right? (otherwise a DNF can beat
a finisher).
Colin J
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I have run a series with five flights. You need four races to complete the round robin and each race one flight has a bye.
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Martin B�lgen <martin@seilforening.no>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 20:49:34 +0200
Norwegian Optimist Dinghy Assosiation says: DNF= (Add the two largest flights)+1. That is baseg on the reason that WHEN doibg flights, they ALWAYS split into 4 flights, two starts. Think it is quite common to split into n-flights in the SI. In Norway 4 flights is practical, because of the number of sailors... But in a bigger event, they often split into 6 flights - three starts...
Maybe it has to be even flights when doing this kind of flight-racing??
You may have noticed Ralph's (?) mail about 2 different kind of flight racing?
regards
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Jenkins
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:37 PM
Subject: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
say red+green flights and blue+yellow flights sail in separate
starts/courses and have start sizes are 50 and 51 boats respectively.
presumably SIs say that DNF etc is based on the *max* start size in any one
race (in this then, based on 51) - is that right? (otherwise a DNF can beat
a finisher).
Colin J
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Generalisation is greate, but how general is scoring sailing events?
I agree with your " generalisation logic". It looks right to me.
Next week they may want to change this, so I would prefer a formula.....
But: We have a statement in the SI, that says: "There has to be 3 starts to make an approved Championship". That means that you can have less than this (it depends on the weather, you know), and still have to score! So, with 2 starts the biggest flights don't have to meet each other...
Also I need to get a good grasp on each group! A scenario is that we have several competitors that shall not count in the "long series" ranking, only in that regatta. So, when the regatta is over, I need to remove those competitors and then rescore. It is nice then, if all flights are even after removing copetitors....That is: I don't want one group with 26, one with 28, one with 30 and the last with 32 competitors when doing the long series" ranking ..... This has to be some tidy manual working, initially.
Maybe this is too weird.... But, that is how it is.
By the way, in "select competitors" I need more selections fields........
When I'm scoring the Europe class i Norway, it's a little complicated:
There are 6 classes: Ladies and mens : Recruits, juniors and seniors.
They shall all be scored "overall", that is: It is one start and they shall be scored according to their finishing place, regardless of class. But each class shall be ranked individually, with their finishing place as the score..... OK ?
Regards!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:32 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
Martin,
As far as I can see that can be generalised as something like "the biggest
start in any one race" - because at some point the 2 or 3 (or 4...) biggest
flights will race eachother. The generalisation implicitly covers how many
flight there are...Colin
www.sailwave.com> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Martin Břlgen
> Sent: 16 May 2005 19:50
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
>
>
> Norwegian Optimist Dinghy Assosiation says: DNF= (Add the two
> largest flights)+1. That is baseg on the reason that WHEN doibg
> flights, they ALWAYS split into 4 flights, two starts. Think it
> is quite common to split into n-flights in the SI. In Norway 4
> flights is practical, because of the number of sailors... But in
> a bigger event, they often split into 6 flights - three starts...
>
> Maybe it has to be even flights when doing this kind of flight-racing??
>
> You may have noticed Ralph's (?) mail about 2 different kind of
> flight racing?
>
> regards
> Martin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Colin Jenkins
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:37 PM
> Subject: [sailwave] flights and dnf etc
>
>
> say red+green flights and blue+yellow flights sail in separate
> starts/courses and have start sizes are 50 and 51 boats respectively.
> presumably SIs say that DNF etc is based on the *max* start
> size in any one
> race (in this then, based on 51) - is that right? (otherwise a
> DNF can beat
> a finisher).
>
> Colin J
>
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>
>
>
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As before we use the rolling handicap at our club.
This means the handicap changes on every race.
Is it possible to enter a different handicap into sailwave for every race or
will it used the updated handicap for all races when the race is scored
again?
TIA
Regards
Terry
Hi Terry,
There is no automation for this yet but you can enter a race specific
handicap value for a competitor via the edit+result menu. You can see an
overviorwe of these values from the picking the View menu option to see race
specific rating values. Publishing a series summary honours the view.
Automation will arrive sometime this year.
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Terry
Sent: 16 May 2005 23:25
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Rolling HandicapAs before we use the rolling handicap at our club.
This means the handicap changes on every race.
Is it possible to enter a different handicap into sailwave for
every race or
will it used the updated handicap for all races when the race is scored
again?TIA
Regards
Terry-!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
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Hi Martin,
By the way, in "select competitors" I need more selections fields........
When I'm scoring the Europe class i Norway, it's a little complicated:
There are 6 classes: Ladies and mens : Recruits, juniors and seniors.
They shall all be scored "overall", that is: It is one start and
they shall be scored according to their finishing place,
regardless of class. But each class shall be ranked individually,
with their finishing place as the score..... OK ?
Can you not do this:-
Use the Fleet field for Male/Female. (I need more fields I know...)
Use the Class field for Ladies/Mens/Recruits/Juniors/Seniors
Score by Fleet.
Score by Class.
.....
Oh, I see, also need results for Female Juniors etc, is that right...?
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
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Colin,
Not sure if we are talking about the same thing, but an import
facility for race specific handicaps would be useful, something like
the import race results.
Mike
Hi Terry,
There is no automation for this yet but you can enter a race specific
handicap value for a competitor via the edit+result menu. You can
see an
overviorwe of these values from the picking the View menu option to
see race
--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jenkins" <colin@s...> wrote:
specific rating values. Publishing a series summary honours the view.
Automation will arrive sometime this year.Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com