Is it usual to ignore or honour ties within starts when scoring slights.
e.g. say red+green flights were racing in a start as were blue+yellow. On
the red+green course 2 boats tied for 1st place, so (using std app a) each
should get 1.5 points...?
Regards,
Colin J
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Depends on the SIs
Can you not adopt the normal fleet racing process in SW of selecting which option?
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 16 May 2005 19:34
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] flights and ties
Is it usual to ignore or honour ties within starts when scoring slights.
e.g. say red+green flights were racing in a start as were blue+yellow. On
the red+green course 2 boats tied for 1st place, so (using std app a) each
should get 1.5 points...?
Regards,
Colin J
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Depends on the SIs
Can you not adopt the normal fleet racing process in SW of
selecting which option?
Yes, but as you know you have to turn off ties in sailwave to allow multiple
1sts etc. I just wanted to know if multiple 1sts *and* tie breaks was
required. And it sound like the answer is yes!
Thx for the quick responses Ralph.
CJ
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Affirmative
When you say tie breaks, presumably you mean race ties.
Can I remind you re series ties (sorry if you have it in hand) that A8.2 needs to be when the boats
last sailed against each other!
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 16 May 2005 19:57
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Depends on the SIs
Can you not adopt the normal fleet racing process in SW of
selecting which option?
Yes, but as you know you have to turn off ties in sailwave to allow multiple
1sts etc. I just wanted to know if multiple 1sts *and* tie breaks was
required. And it sound like the answer is yes!
Thx for the quick responses Ralph.
CJ
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Never tought about that.... The ties you must ignore, is between starts. All other must then be std.app. A ? Hope someone else can answer this better.
A little clear up:
(I need this...)
#1 flights racing:
(NOT app.LE)
One round is 2 starts
One start is 2 flights.
One flight is 2 groups
one group is n boats
You needs 6 rounds to make every boat meet each other 2 times (common).
This asumes that you have 4 groups. If you have 6, it has to be 3 starts in one round. (All groups has to meet each other the same number of times, otherwise raced starts must be discarded)
#2 flights racing
(App. LE, old KE)
one group = one flight
Flights don't race eachother.
Flights are based on some kind of ranking (i.e. ISAF ranking) the firs time/day.
New flights created every day, based on the results the same day.
Now you have several possibilities for scoring:
Qualifying races- Does the boat bring with her the score or position to the finals?
The final is another 3 (or more) flights (gold, silver bronze or more), based on their rank in the qualifying races...
This (appLE) is more like individual fleet racing, with overall ranking/scoring....
Am I right??
regards
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Jenkins
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:34 PM
Subject: [sailwave] flights and ties
Is it usual to ignore or honour ties within starts when scoring slights.
e.g. say red+green flights were racing in a start as were blue+yellow. On
the red+green course 2 boats tied for 1st place, so (using std app a) each
should get 1.5 points...?
Regards,
Colin J
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Can I remind you re series ties (sorry if you have it in hand)
that A8.2 needs to be when the boats
last sailed against each other!
http://www.sailwave.com/stuff/Clip1.jpg
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You should score the flight racing the same as a normal race in terms of ties, redress etc.
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:34:26 +0100
Is it usual to ignore or honour ties within starts when scoring slights.
e.g. say red+green flights were racing in a start as were blue+yellow. On
the red+green course 2 boats tied for 1st place, so (using std app a) each
should get 1.5 points...?
Regards,
Colin J
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Beware of narrowing the options.
Appendix A has only generally settled down after many years, but even now there are different
requirements as Colin has found with requests to add this & that option.
Flights are fairly new & with the ISAF pressure to develop new and 'audience friendly, exciting
formats' I suspect that we will see many more variations appearing in SIs until the world comes to
an acceptable compromise.
Whatever you do Colin, try & retain flexibility.
Trying to automate is wonderful, but it only really works when all options are covered & I would
suggest that we are not there yet.
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 16 May 2005 21:47
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
You should score the flight racing the same as a normal race in terms of
ties, redress etc.
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:34:26 +0100
Is it usual to ignore or honour ties within starts when scoring slights.
e.g. say red+green flights were racing in a start as were blue+yellow. On
the red+green course 2 boats tied for 1st place, so (using std app a) each
should get 1.5 points...?
Regards,
Colin J
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Hi Ralph,
So are you saying that WRT DNF etc, from your POV, the finishing code method
that is already there is adequate to cover it in a flight context?
"Score a fixed number of points as specified below"
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Tingle
Sent: 16 May 2005 22:08
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and tiesBeware of narrowing the options.
Appendix A has only generally settled down after many years, but
even now there are different
requirements as Colin has found with requests to add this & that option.Flights are fairly new & with the ISAF pressure to develop new
and 'audience friendly, exciting
formats' I suspect that we will see many more variations
appearing in SIs until the world comes to
an acceptable compromise.Whatever you do Colin, try & retain flexibility.
Trying to automate is wonderful, but it only really works when
all options are covered & I would
suggest that we are not there yet.Regards
RalphFrom: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 16 May 2005 21:47
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and tiesYou should score the flight racing the same as a normal race in terms of
ties, redress etc.Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com----Original Message Follows----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:34:26 +0100Is it usual to ignore or honour ties within starts when scoring slights.
e.g. say red+green flights were racing in a start as were blue+yellow. On
the red+green course 2 boats tied for 1st place, so (using std app a) each
should get 1.5 points...?Regards,
Colin J--
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-----Original Message-----
-----Original Message-----
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Hi Mark,
You should score the flight racing the same as a normal race in terms of
ties, redress etc.
Thanks Mark. What's your experience with DNF/RAF etc. Using the usual rules
a start containing 2 10 boat flights will have a points awarded between 1
and 10 but DNF shoots up to 21... This is what Sailwave does now, but it
seems like:-
Points for ("biggest start in the series" + 1)
and
Points for ("Size of N biggest flights where N is the max number of
flights in any one start" + 1)
etc is more reasonable...
Anders' what was your erequirement; I can't remember...
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
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Yup!
That's what I used for my recent event, when I eventually remembered to do it :-((
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 17 May 2005 07:11
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Hi Ralph,
So are you saying that WRT DNF etc, from your POV, the finishing code method
that is already there is adequate to cover it in a flight context?
"Score a fixed number of points as specified below"
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Tingle
Sent: 16 May 2005 22:08
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and tiesBeware of narrowing the options.
Appendix A has only generally settled down after many years, but
even now there are different
requirements as Colin has found with requests to add this & that option.Flights are fairly new & with the ISAF pressure to develop new
and 'audience friendly, exciting
formats' I suspect that we will see many more variations
appearing in SIs until the world comes to
an acceptable compromise.Whatever you do Colin, try & retain flexibility.
Trying to automate is wonderful, but it only really works when
all options are covered & I would
suggest that we are not there yet.Regards
Ralph-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 16 May 2005 21:47
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and tiesYou should score the flight racing the same as a normal race in terms of
ties, redress etc.Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com----Original Message Follows----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:34:26 +0100Is it usual to ignore or honour ties within starts when scoring slights.
e.g. say red+green flights were racing in a start as were blue+yellow. On
the red+green course 2 boats tied for 1st place, so (using std app a) each
should get 1.5 points...?Regards,
Colin J--
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Colin,
I spent some considerable time discussing the flight issue with one of our club scoring gurus, who has scored many qualification series over the years involving everything from Naples Sabots to Tornado Cats.
Other than a few class restrictions (such as Snipe scoring which bases codes on starters, finishers and entrants depending upon which penalty is being considered), DNF, DNS, RAF, DNC, OCS, DNC all score as the number of boats entered in the series plus 1. The interpretation of this for flights is that it is the number of possible entrants in a race plus 1. So given four flights red, green, blue and orange with red and green having eleven boats and blue and orange having ten boats. When blue sails against orange the maximum # which could sail in that race is 20 plus 1=21; when red sails against green it's 22 plus 1= 23 or when red sails against blue it's 21 plus 1=22. This goes for DNF, DNS, RAF (retired after finishing), DNC and OCS.
For ZFP (Z flag penalty): (c) The boat's penalty score shall be the score for the place worse than her actual finishing place by the number of places stated in the sailing instructions, except that she shall not be scored worse than Did Not Finish. When the sailing instructions do not state the number of places, the number shall be the whole number (rounding 0.5 upward) nearest to 20% of the number of boats entered. The scores of other boats shall not be changed; therefore, two boats may receive the same score. The interpretation, again, is that you would use the second definition and it would be 20% of the possible # of boats that could sail in that particular flight race and round 0.5 upward.
You would need an SI that states: "For flight scoring only, a DNF, DNS, RAF, DNC, OCS ,and DNC score will be the highest possible number of entrants in any two flights plus 1; ZFP will be 20% of the the highest possible number of entrants in any two flights (rounding 0.5 upward)."
To ensure that it works for everyone could you set up an option tab in the scoring section that allows you to pick a way of calculating the number of entrants or setting it as an integer.
1) # entrants = total entries in all flights
2) # entrants = maximum entries in a race
3) # entrants = manual setting
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:37:50 +0100
Hi Mark,
> You should score the flight racing the same as a normal race in terms of
> ties, redress etc.
Thanks Mark. What's your experience with DNF/RAF etc. Using the usual rules
a start containing 2 10 boat flights will have a points awarded between 1
and 10 but DNF shoots up to 21... This is what Sailwave does now, but it
seems like:-
Points for ("biggest start in the series" + 1)
and
Points for ("Size of N biggest flights where N is the max number of
flights in any one start" + 1)
etc is more reasonable...
Anders' what was your erequirement; I can't remember...
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
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I agree with Ralph, you can certainly make what we have today work. You just have to set all the scoring codes as they won't calculate .
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ralph Tingle" <rat@attat.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 08:49:25 +0100
Yup!
That's what I used for my recent event, when I eventually remembered to do it :-((
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 17 May 2005 07:11
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Hi Ralph,
So are you saying that WRT DNF etc, from your POV, the finishing code method
that is already there is adequate to cover it in a flight context?
"Score a fixed number of points as specified below"
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Tingle
> Sent: 16 May 2005 22:08
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
>
> Beware of narrowing the options.
>
> Appendix A has only generally settled down after many years, but
> even now there are different
> requirements as Colin has found with requests to add this & that option.
>
> Flights are fairly new & with the ISAF pressure to develop new
> and 'audience friendly, exciting
> formats' I suspect that we will see many more variations
> appearing in SIs until the world comes to
> an acceptable compromise.
>
> Whatever you do Colin, try & retain flexibility.
> Trying to automate is wonderful, but it only really works when
> all options are covered & I would
> suggest that we are not there yet.
>
> Regards
> Ralph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 16 May 2005 21:47
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
>
> You should score the flight racing the same as a normal race in terms of
> ties, redress etc.
>
> Mark Townsend
> s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
> Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [sailwave] flights and ties
> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:34:26 +0100
>
> Is it usual to ignore or honour ties within starts when scoring slights.
> e.g. say red+green flights were racing in a start as were blue+yellow. On
> the red+green course 2 boats tied for 1st place, so (using std app a) each
> should get 1.5 points...?
>
> Regards,
> Colin J
>
> --
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Martin
As the default for most of these codes is same as DNF, I just set the points for DNF & the rest
followed....??
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 17 May 2005 17:23
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
I agree with Ralph, you can certainly make what we have today work. You just
have to set all the scoring codes as they won't calculate .
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ralph Tingle" <rat@attat.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 08:49:25 +0100
Yup!
That's what I used for my recent event, when I eventually remembered to do
it :-((
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 17 May 2005 07:11
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Hi Ralph,
So are you saying that WRT DNF etc, from your POV, the finishing code method
that is already there is adequate to cover it in a flight context?
"Score a fixed number of points as specified below"
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Tingle
> Sent: 16 May 2005 22:08
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
>
>
> Beware of narrowing the options.
>
> Appendix A has only generally settled down after many years, but
> even now there are different
> requirements as Colin has found with requests to add this & that option.
>
> Flights are fairly new & with the ISAF pressure to develop new
> and 'audience friendly, exciting
> formats' I suspect that we will see many more variations
> appearing in SIs until the world comes to
> an acceptable compromise.
>
> Whatever you do Colin, try & retain flexibility.
> Trying to automate is wonderful, but it only really works when
> all options are covered & I would
> suggest that we are not there yet.
>
>
> Regards
> Ralph
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 16 May 2005 21:47
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
>
>
> You should score the flight racing the same as a normal race in terms of
> ties, redress etc.
>
>
>
> Mark Townsend
> s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
> Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [sailwave] flights and ties
> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:34:26 +0100
>
> Is it usual to ignore or honour ties within starts when scoring slights.
> e.g. say red+green flights were racing in a start as were blue+yellow.
On
> the red+green course 2 boats tied for 1st place, so (using std app a)
each
> should get 1.5 points...?
>
>
> Regards,
> Colin J
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 16/05/2005
>
>
>
>
>
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Ralph, Mark and Colin:
I think we are close to a solution here!
The problem is that when you rescore to a code, SW want adjust the other scorings. All other things are like Ralph and Mark has pointed out.
This is what I did too: Set a point for DNF.
The above works for a SINGLE regatta, but if you have to merge several regattas to make a ranking serier ther will be some problems: The DNC has to change according to the number of boats entered in the SERIES (RRS A9). But all other codes refers to the actual REGATTA, not race.
If I could say: r1-r6 is regatta1, where DNF=n points and r7-r12 is regatta 2 where DNF=n2 points and so on.
I think this pinpoints my problems...
Thanks!
/martin
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Tingle
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 6:36 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Martin
As the default for most of these codes is same as DNF, I just set the points for DNF & the rest
followed....??
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 17 May 2005 17:23
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
I agree with Ralph, you can certainly make what we have today work. You just
have to set all the scoring codes as they won't calculate .
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ralph Tingle" <rat@attat.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 08:49:25 +0100
Yup!
That's what I used for my recent event, when I eventually remembered to do
it :-((
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 17 May 2005 07:11
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Hi Ralph,
So are you saying that WRT DNF etc, from your POV, the finishing code method
that is already there is adequate to cover it in a flight context?
"Score a fixed number of points as specified below"
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Tingle
> Sent: 16 May 2005 22:08
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
>
>
> Beware of narrowing the options.
>
> Appendix A has only generally settled down after many years, but
> even now there are different
> requirements as Colin has found with requests to add this & that option.
>
> Flights are fairly new & with the ISAF pressure to develop new
> and 'audience friendly, exciting
> formats' I suspect that we will see many more variations
> appearing in SIs until the world comes to
> an acceptable compromise.
>
> Whatever you do Colin, try & retain flexibility.
> Trying to automate is wonderful, but it only really works when
> all options are covered & I would
> suggest that we are not there yet.
>
>
> Regards
> Ralph
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 16 May 2005 21:47
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
>
>
> You should score the flight racing the same as a normal race in terms of
> ties, redress etc.
>
>
>
> Mark Townsend
> s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
> Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [sailwave] flights and ties
> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:34:26 +0100
>
> Is it usual to ignore or honour ties within starts when scoring slights.
> e.g. say red+green flights were racing in a start as were blue+yellow.
On
> the red+green course 2 boats tied for 1st place, so (using std app a)
each
> should get 1.5 points...?
>
>
> Regards,
> Colin J
>
> --
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>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Mark,
Thanks very must for that; I appreciate it.
I've added two code methods that are based on the maximum start size in the
series:-
http://www.sailwave.com/stuff/Clip6.jpg
And added a flight reset button.
http://www.sailwave.com/stuff/Clip4.jpg
Like all code methods, Sailwave implicitly handles scoring all boats
included in teh series and scoring by field.
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mark Townsend
Sent: 17 May 2005 17:21
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com; colin@sailwave.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and tiesColin,
I spent some considerable time discussing the flight issue with
one of our
club scoring gurus, who has scored many qualification series over
the years
involving everything from Naples Sabots to Tornado Cats.Other than a few class restrictions (such as Snipe scoring which
bases codes
on starters, finishers and entrants depending upon which penalty is being
considered), DNF, DNS, RAF, DNC, OCS, DNC all score as the
number of boats
entered in the series plus 1. The interpretation of this for flights is
that it is the number of possible entrants in a race plus 1. So
given four
flights red, green, blue and orange with red and green having
eleven boats
and blue and orange having ten boats. When blue sails against orange the
maximum # which could sail in that race is 20 plus 1=21; when red sails
against green it's 22 plus 1= 23 or when red sails against blue
it's 21 plus
1=22. This goes for DNF, DNS, RAF (retired after finishing), DNC and OCS.For ZFP (Z flag penalty): (c) The boat's penalty score shall be the score
for the place worse than her actual finishing place by the number
of places
stated in the sailing instructions, except that she shall not be scored
worse than Did Not Finish. When the sailing instructions do not state the
number of places, the number shall be the whole number (rounding
0.5 upward)
nearest to 20% of the number of boats entered. The scores of other boats
shall not be changed; therefore, two boats may receive the same
score. The
interpretation, again, is that you would use the second definition and it
would be 20% of the possible # of boats that could sail in that
particular
flight race and round 0.5 upward.You would need an SI that states: "For flight scoring only, a
DNF, DNS, RAF,
DNC, OCS ,and DNC score will be the highest possible number of
entrants in
any two flights plus 1; ZFP will be 20% of the the highest
possible number
of entrants in any two flights (rounding 0.5 upward)."To ensure that it works for everyone could you set up an option
tab in the
scoring section that allows you to pick a way of calculating the
number of
entrants or setting it as an integer.1) # entrants = total entries in all flights
2) # entrants = maximum entries in a race
3) # entrants = manual settingMark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com----Original Message Follows----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:37:50 +0100Hi Mark,
> You should score the flight racing the same as a normal race
in terms of
> ties, redress etc.Thanks Mark. What's your experience with DNF/RAF etc. Using the
usual rules
a start containing 2 10 boat flights will have a points awarded between 1
and 10 but DNF shoots up to 21... This is what Sailwave does now, but it
seems like:-Points for ("biggest start in the series" + 1)
and
Points for ("Size of N biggest flights where N is the max number of
flights in any one start" + 1)etc is more reasonable...
Anders' what was your erequirement; I can't remember...
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com--
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Colin
Just had a thought re the flights options & Mark's reference to boats in a 'race'
I used the option for scoring a single race but with two separate starts eg red & green, blue &
orange so that everyone had a result for that race but there were duplicate positions (2 firsts,
seconds etc)
In Mark's example below, there are 42 entrants so if races are set up with two starts, will the
logic of number in race + 1 result in DNFs etc being scored as 43 points? (which may not be what is
required)
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 18 May 2005 08:44
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Hi Mark,
Thanks very must for that; I appreciate it.
I've added two code methods that are based on the maximum start size in the
series:-
http://www.sailwave.com/stuff/Clip6.jpg
And added a flight reset button.
http://www.sailwave.com/stuff/Clip4.jpg
Like all code methods, Sailwave implicitly handles scoring all boats
included in teh series and scoring by field.
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mark Townsend
Sent: 17 May 2005 17:21
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com; colin@sailwave.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and tiesColin,
I spent some considerable time discussing the flight issue with
one of our
club scoring gurus, who has scored many qualification series over
the years
involving everything from Naples Sabots to Tornado Cats.Other than a few class restrictions (such as Snipe scoring which
bases codes
on starters, finishers and entrants depending upon which penalty is being
considered), DNF, DNS, RAF, DNC, OCS, DNC all score as the
number of boats
entered in the series plus 1. The interpretation of this for flights is
that it is the number of possible entrants in a race plus 1. So
given four
flights red, green, blue and orange with red and green having
eleven boats
and blue and orange having ten boats. When blue sails against orange the
maximum # which could sail in that race is 20 plus 1=21; when red sails
against green it's 22 plus 1= 23 or when red sails against blue
it's 21 plus
1=22. This goes for DNF, DNS, RAF (retired after finishing), DNC and OCS.For ZFP (Z flag penalty): (c) The boat's penalty score shall be the score
for the place worse than her actual finishing place by the number
of places
stated in the sailing instructions, except that she shall not be scored
worse than Did Not Finish. When the sailing instructions do not state the
number of places, the number shall be the whole number (rounding
0.5 upward)
nearest to 20% of the number of boats entered. The scores of other boats
shall not be changed; therefore, two boats may receive the same
score. The
interpretation, again, is that you would use the second definition and it
would be 20% of the possible # of boats that could sail in that
particular
flight race and round 0.5 upward.You would need an SI that states: "For flight scoring only, a
DNF, DNS, RAF,
DNC, OCS ,and DNC score will be the highest possible number of
entrants in
any two flights plus 1; ZFP will be 20% of the the highest
possible number
of entrants in any two flights (rounding 0.5 upward)."To ensure that it works for everyone could you set up an option
tab in the
scoring section that allows you to pick a way of calculating the
number of
entrants or setting it as an integer.1) # entrants = total entries in all flights
2) # entrants = maximum entries in a race
3) # entrants = manual settingMark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com----Original Message Follows----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:37:50 +0100Hi Mark,
> You should score the flight racing the same as a normal race
in terms of
> ties, redress etc.Thanks Mark. What's your experience with DNF/RAF etc. Using the
usual rules
a start containing 2 10 boat flights will have a points awarded between 1
and 10 but DNF shoots up to 21... This is what Sailwave does now, but it
seems like:-Points for ("biggest start in the series" + 1)
and
Points for ("Size of N biggest flights where N is the max number of
flights in any one start" + 1)etc is more reasonable...
Anders' what was your erequirement; I can't remember...
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com--
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One other comment that came up after I sent the last e-mail. In most qualification series we do not break ties. The top xx boats plus ties (tie being boast with the same score) qualify for gold.
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 08:44:27 +0100
Hi Mark,
Thanks very must for that; I appreciate it.
I've added two code methods that are based on the maximum start size in the
series:-
http://www.sailwave.com/stuff/Clip6.jpg
And added a flight reset button.
http://www.sailwave.com/stuff/Clip4.jpg
Like all code methods, Sailwave implicitly handles scoring all boats
included in teh series and scoring by field.
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mark Townsend
> Sent: 17 May 2005 17:21
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com; colin@sailwave.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
>
> Colin,
>
> I spent some considerable time discussing the flight issue with
> one of our
> club scoring gurus, who has scored many qualification series over
> the years
> involving everything from Naples Sabots to Tornado Cats.
>
> Other than a few class restrictions (such as Snipe scoring which
> bases codes
> on starters, finishers and entrants depending upon which penalty is being
> considered), DNF, DNS, RAF, DNC, OCS, DNC all score as the
> number of boats
> entered in the series plus 1. The interpretation of this for flights is
> that it is the number of possible entrants in a race plus 1. So
> given four
> flights red, green, blue and orange with red and green having
> eleven boats
> and blue and orange having ten boats. When blue sails against orange the
> maximum # which could sail in that race is 20 plus 1=21; when red sails
> against green it's 22 plus 1= 23 or when red sails against blue
> it's 21 plus
> 1=22. This goes for DNF, DNS, RAF (retired after finishing), DNC and OCS.
>
> For ZFP (Z flag penalty): (c) The boat's penalty score shall be the score
> for the place worse than her actual finishing place by the number
> of places
> stated in the sailing instructions, except that she shall not be scored
> worse than Did Not Finish. When the sailing instructions do not state the
> number of places, the number shall be the whole number (rounding
> 0.5 upward)
> nearest to 20% of the number of boats entered. The scores of other boats
> shall not be changed; therefore, two boats may receive the same
> score. The
> interpretation, again, is that you would use the second definition and it
> would be 20% of the possible # of boats that could sail in that
> particular
> flight race and round 0.5 upward.
>
> You would need an SI that states: "For flight scoring only, a
> DNF, DNS, RAF,
> DNC, OCS ,and DNC score will be the highest possible number of
> entrants in
> any two flights plus 1; ZFP will be 20% of the the highest
> possible number
> of entrants in any two flights (rounding 0.5 upward)."
>
> To ensure that it works for everyone could you set up an option
> tab in the
> scoring section that allows you to pick a way of calculating the
> number of
> entrants or setting it as an integer.
>
> 1) # entrants = total entries in all flights
> 2) # entrants = maximum entries in a race
> 3) # entrants = manual setting
>
> Mark Townsend
> s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
> Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:37:50 +0100
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> > You should score the flight racing the same as a normal race
> in terms of
> > ties, redress etc.
>
> Thanks Mark. What's your experience with DNF/RAF etc. Using the
> usual rules
> a start containing 2 10 boat flights will have a points awarded between 1
> and 10 but DNF shoots up to 21... This is what Sailwave does now, but it
> seems like:-
>
> Points for ("biggest start in the series" + 1)
>
> and
>
> Points for ("Size of N biggest flights where N is the max number of
> flights in any one start" + 1)
>
> etc is more reasonable...
>
> Anders' what was your erequirement; I can't remember...
>
> Regards,
> Colin
> www.sailwave.com
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 16/05/2005
>
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>
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Ralph, that is not the way we score the DNF's etc. IF Red sails Green, 22 boats, DNF=23 and Blue sails Orange, 20 boats, DNF=23.
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ralph Tingle" <rat@attat.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 09:06:13 +0100
Colin
Just had a thought re the flights options & Mark's reference to boats in a 'race'
I used the option for scoring a single race but with two separate starts eg red & green, blue &
orange so that everyone had a result for that race but there were duplicate positions (2 firsts,
seconds etc)
In Mark's example below, there are 42 entrants so if races are set up with two starts, will the
logic of number in race + 1 result in DNFs etc being scored as 43 points? (which may not be what is
required)
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 18 May 2005 08:44
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Hi Mark,
Thanks very must for that; I appreciate it.
I've added two code methods that are based on the maximum start size in the
series:-
http://www.sailwave.com/stuff/Clip6.jpg
And added a flight reset button.
http://www.sailwave.com/stuff/Clip4.jpg
Like all code methods, Sailwave implicitly handles scoring all boats
included in teh series and scoring by field.
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mark Townsend
> Sent: 17 May 2005 17:21
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com; colin@sailwave.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
>
> Colin,
>
> I spent some considerable time discussing the flight issue with
> one of our
> club scoring gurus, who has scored many qualification series over
> the years
> involving everything from Naples Sabots to Tornado Cats.
>
> Other than a few class restrictions (such as Snipe scoring which
> bases codes
> on starters, finishers and entrants depending upon which penalty is being
> considered), DNF, DNS, RAF, DNC, OCS, DNC all score as the
> number of boats
> entered in the series plus 1. The interpretation of this for flights is
> that it is the number of possible entrants in a race plus 1. So
> given four
> flights red, green, blue and orange with red and green having
> eleven boats
> and blue and orange having ten boats. When blue sails against orange the
> maximum # which could sail in that race is 20 plus 1=21; when red sails
> against green it's 22 plus 1= 23 or when red sails against blue
> it's 21 plus
> 1=22. This goes for DNF, DNS, RAF (retired after finishing), DNC and OCS.
>
> For ZFP (Z flag penalty): (c) The boat's penalty score shall be the score
> for the place worse than her actual finishing place by the number
> of places
> stated in the sailing instructions, except that she shall not be scored
> worse than Did Not Finish. When the sailing instructions do not state the
> number of places, the number shall be the whole number (rounding
> 0.5 upward)
> nearest to 20% of the number of boats entered. The scores of other boats
> shall not be changed; therefore, two boats may receive the same
> score. The
> interpretation, again, is that you would use the second definition and it
> would be 20% of the possible # of boats that could sail in that
> particular
> flight race and round 0.5 upward.
>
> You would need an SI that states: "For flight scoring only, a
> DNF, DNS, RAF,
> DNC, OCS ,and DNC score will be the highest possible number of
> entrants in
> any two flights plus 1; ZFP will be 20% of the the highest
> possible number
> of entrants in any two flights (rounding 0.5 upward)."
>
> To ensure that it works for everyone could you set up an option
> tab in the
> scoring section that allows you to pick a way of calculating the
> number of
> entrants or setting it as an integer.
>
> 1) # entrants = total entries in all flights
> 2) # entrants = maximum entries in a race
> 3) # entrants = manual setting
>
> Mark Townsend
> s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
> Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:37:50 +0100
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> > You should score the flight racing the same as a normal race
> in terms of
> > ties, redress etc.
>
> Thanks Mark. What's your experience with DNF/RAF etc. Using the
> usual rules
> a start containing 2 10 boat flights will have a points awarded between 1
> and 10 but DNF shoots up to 21... This is what Sailwave does now, but it
> seems like:-
>
> Points for ("biggest start in the series" + 1)
>
> and
>
> Points for ("Size of N biggest flights where N is the max number of
> flights in any one start" + 1)
>
> etc is more reasonable...
>
> Anders' what was your erequirement; I can't remember...
>
> Regards,
> Colin
> www.sailwave.com
>
> --
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Sorry Mark
Misunderstood what you were saying.
It sounds as though both our experiences have been largest 'combination' + 1
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 18 May 2005 15:58
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Ralph, that is not the way we score the DNF's etc. IF Red sails Green, 22
boats, DNF=23 and Blue sails Orange, 20 boats, DNF=23.
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ralph Tingle" <rat@attat.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 09:06:13 +0100
Colin
Just had a thought re the flights options & Mark's reference to boats in a
'race'
I used the option for scoring a single race but with two separate starts eg
red & green, blue &
orange so that everyone had a result for that race but there were duplicate
positions (2 firsts,
seconds etc)
In Mark's example below, there are 42 entrants so if races are set up with
two starts, will the
logic of number in race + 1 result in DNFs etc being scored as 43 points?
(which may not be what is
required)
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 18 May 2005 08:44
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
Hi Mark,
Thanks very must for that; I appreciate it.
I've added two code methods that are based on the maximum start size in the
series:-
http://www.sailwave.com/stuff/Clip6.jpg
And added a flight reset button.
http://www.sailwave.com/stuff/Clip4.jpg
Like all code methods, Sailwave implicitly handles scoring all boats
included in teh series and scoring by field.
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mark Townsend
> Sent: 17 May 2005 17:21
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com; colin@sailwave.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
>
>
> Colin,
>
> I spent some considerable time discussing the flight issue with
> one of our
> club scoring gurus, who has scored many qualification series over
> the years
> involving everything from Naples Sabots to Tornado Cats.
>
>
> Other than a few class restrictions (such as Snipe scoring which
> bases codes
> on starters, finishers and entrants depending upon which penalty is being
> considered), DNF, DNS, RAF, DNC, OCS, DNC all score as the
> number of boats
> entered in the series plus 1. The interpretation of this for flights is
> that it is the number of possible entrants in a race plus 1. So
> given four
> flights red, green, blue and orange with red and green having
> eleven boats
> and blue and orange having ten boats. When blue sails against orange the
> maximum # which could sail in that race is 20 plus 1=21; when red sails
> against green it's 22 plus 1= 23 or when red sails against blue
> it's 21 plus
> 1=22. This goes for DNF, DNS, RAF (retired after finishing), DNC and
OCS.
>
>
> For ZFP (Z flag penalty): (c) The boat's penalty score shall be the score
> for the place worse than her actual finishing place by the number
> of places
> stated in the sailing instructions, except that she shall not be scored
> worse than Did Not Finish. When the sailing instructions do not state the
> number of places, the number shall be the whole number (rounding
> 0.5 upward)
> nearest to 20% of the number of boats entered. The scores of other boats
> shall not be changed; therefore, two boats may receive the same
> score. The
> interpretation, again, is that you would use the second definition and it
> would be 20% of the possible # of boats that could sail in that
> particular
> flight race and round 0.5 upward.
>
>
> You would need an SI that states: "For flight scoring only, a
> DNF, DNS, RAF,
> DNC, OCS ,and DNC score will be the highest possible number of
> entrants in
> any two flights plus 1; ZFP will be 20% of the the highest
> possible number
> of entrants in any two flights (rounding 0.5 upward)."
>
>
> To ensure that it works for everyone could you set up an option
> tab in the
> scoring section that allows you to pick a way of calculating the
> number of
> entrants or setting it as an integer.
>
> 1) # entrants = total entries in all flights
> 2) # entrants = maximum entries in a race
> 3) # entrants = manual setting
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark Townsend
> s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
> Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] flights and ties
> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:37:50 +0100
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> > You should score the flight racing the same as a normal race
> in terms of
> > ties, redress etc.
>
> Thanks Mark. What's your experience with DNF/RAF etc. Using the
> usual rules
> a start containing 2 10 boat flights will have a points awarded between 1
> and 10 but DNF shoots up to 21... This is what Sailwave does now, but it
> seems like:-
>
> Points for ("biggest start in the series" + 1)
>
> and
>
> Points for ("Size of N biggest flights where N is the max number of
> flights in any one start" + 1)
>
>
> etc is more reasonable...
>
> Anders' what was your erequirement; I can't remember...
>
> Regards,
> Colin
> www.sailwave.com
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 16/05/2005
>
>
>
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>
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