Hi all, old time user from version 1, but I haven’t scored an event in a long while. Does anyone have an ORC ratings file and regatta file using the 6 different ratings and the three windspeeds that ORC is using in my little bit of water. Back in the day, I would have built a csv file with the boat class and then a dpn or base rating and three or 4 windspeed ratings. Consequently, I would have 6 csv files for the the ORC ratings. Boat class now looks like a branding device because each boat could be customized and have a unique measurement certificate. So, I guess you build the database around a boats sail number? Again, back in the day… I usually failed at getting a scorekeeper to remember to enter the wind speed for each race so that the proper rating was used… These ORC tables are so complicated and the numbers are simply arcane that you won’t remember any boats number and catch an error until its too late.
EG Triple All Purpose (Low Medium, and High) and the next rating table is Triple W/L again with (Low Medium and High)
I wonder if it is user friendly for the PRO to just tell the scorekeeper which single number ratings file to use that race or evening rather then setting all of the selection factors to pull the proper rating from a clubs database. Does this generation of sailwave have new features that make this scoring situation sensible?
Welcome back to Sailwave. I am fairly confident Sailwave can do what you would like.
I am not aware of an ORC ratings file. I have in the past created a CSV file of the entries including wind indexed ratings for a specific event.
Are your events using ToD or ToT? The reason I ask is Sailwave will expect the same for all races.
Would you be able to attach an image of a rating certificate that is being used by a boat in your events? It would help me have a better understanding.
Look forward to helping you.
Hello again Huw… great to see you are still playing a key role in all things Sailwave. Here is a link to the clubs ratings page for the event. The racing is Time on time and I simply used the generic formula and manual entered the ratings and elapsed time. I was just looking to give my friend BCE and BCR. I was quite surprised to see the full ORC implementation. jratings page. The last time I scored, YachtScoring was just starting to win market dominance for big boat racing in my area and it looks like Luis has fully implemented the ratings from this certificate Ratings file in ORC database so that clubs can score handicap.
At the time, Colin and Jon decided to not compete with outfits like Yacht scoring and simply import their registration file or final results and process the data in SW as usual. Is that still the model?
It would seem to me that you would set ORC as your Fleets rating system. Then for each race in the series… you would have to enter the PRO’s choices that day … Time on Time, Course configuration and then Wind. Similar to a PN race. if you selected nothing the default rating would be used. The list of entries page would grab the generic rating. Obviously, this only makes sense if you are able to use without royalty the ORC ratings database.
You could probably use a stand alone app to generate a csv registration file from the ORC database of just the boats you have registered so that Sailwave can function completely offline. Since every boat is unique… the ORC ratings file could just build up for a region. (I don’t know if a boat changes ownership if it must get a new rating) Thanks
HI all, ORC scoring is easily done with a couple of work arounds. I have one SW file with OCR Triple AP ratings at Medium wind and the second race in the series is scored with ORC W/L low wind. (you read in the two proper rating from the registration csv page). I know I can merge final results from the two races into one new blw file and rescore all the races based on final position. Is there a way to keep the specific race calculations in the merge.
There are some obvious upgrades that would be nice. The most important one is managing the other ORC ratings tables. Sailwave can manage one. Right now, I import the registration csv into two Blw files. In one table, I map Handicap rating to AP single number and AP triple to Wind ratings. and i repeat the process for the second blw file but for WL formats. I remap to WL single number and WL tripple wind ratings to the sailwave rating and wind speed rating.
Another work around could be to re-import a registration file but NOT overwrite the entered and scored race data? IE these data are locked. This would be a simple fix…You just import the registration csv and remap rating and wind ratings to the proper choice and score your next race. I assume Sailwave does not go back and recalculate previously scored races. based on the updated rating and wind rating values??? I don’t think SW works this way tho.
more random thoughts/questions… Could aliasing help me out here? ( Limited experience using this but I understand it to mean the same results can be aliased to an additional fleet using a seperate scoring systems).
What is the alternate rating field used for and could I repurpose that as a second pair of rating fields (new upgrade since my last experience)?
Any other upgrades that could help?
I think you are over-thinking this. We’ve used so-called “wind-indexing”
locally a few times. For events with different course ratings we use
“buoy,” “random leg” and “offwind” but there is no reason you couldn’t
have “buoy-low,” “buoy-med,” “buoy-high,” etc. Personally, I can’t see
any need for multiple files or aliases or other complications.
I suppose you might want high-windspeed races count twice as much as
other races but I think you’d have to do that on a race by race basis. I
don’t think it could be automated.
If this doesn’t work for you then I think you need to explain what you
are trying to accomplish as I don’t see why the “wind-indexed” option
Art, The club PRO picks from two course configurations W/L and Buoy aka AP and a wind band for Wed night… So… I combine Single number Buoy with Buoy three windspeeds for buoy aka Buoy Low, Buoy Medium and Buoy High. Then you select the wind speed when you edit the particular race. The problem is… .Next week in the series… he selects a WL course and so I open a new blw file, import the competitors and select the single number WL and the WL wind ratings during the import and score that evenings race. Now I have two blw files… I now create a third BLW file and import the race results from R1 and R2’s Blw files and score the series… Very workable but its not an elegant or clean solution.
What would be best for ORC scoring would be for Sailwave to have 4 sets of ratings imported when you read the csv file of competitors. Then each race in a regatta using ORC scoring for the fleet would have you select the ratings band… eg Buoy (aka AP) and then select the wind speed band (or not … if using single number ratings).
Everything else is searching for better work a rounds.
I’m still very confused. Forget the names, lets assume you have 6
ratings for each boat (rating-1 to rating-6, whether different courses
or wind ranges is irrelevant). You put all the information for each boat
(including all 6 ratings) into a CSV file and import into Sailwave.
For race #1 you choose to score with rating-1, for race #2 you choose to
score with rating-6, for race #3 you choose to score with rating-4, etc.
I don’t understand the need for more than one BLW file.
Where do I put the ratings in Sailwave… I know i can map 1 rating to Rating field. and I can map 4 ratings to the windrat field. So that is one of the ORC schemes… eg Buoy races … this is essentially identical to classic portsmouth one single number and 3 wind bands. Where are you mapping the other ORC ratings to in sailwave and how do you use them?
We seem to be talking at cross-purposes. As an example, for 7 ratings
here is what I would do in Sailwave directly:
“Setup|User Interface” enable “Wind indexed ratings”
Go to “Setup|Scoring system|Rating System” and choose TCF (assuming
you are using Time Correction Factor Scoring but choose whichever option
Enable “Use wind indexed rating values” and then enter the names for
your ratings - I used
“Single,Buoy-L,Buoy-M,Buoy-H,Random-L,Random-M,Random-H” [don’t enter
Now go to “Edit competitor|Entry” and toward the bottom you will see
two boxes entitled: “TCF” and “Wind values.” You can ignore the TCF box
and leave it blank since you won’t be using that. In the other box put
your 7 ratings. I used “1.0,1.01,1.02,1.03,0.99,0.98,0.97” [don’t enter
When you set up a race under “Edit|Edit race|R1” you can now pick the
rating to use since under “Wind index” heading you will have a dropdown
list with your 7 rating names.
I believe you can do this in a CSV file for import but you’ll have to
play around with that. I seem to recall the wind-indexed ratings needed
to be in single or double quotes but others might know more.
Now for race #1 I can choose “Single” and for race #2 I can pick
“Buoy-H” and for race #3 I can pick “Random-L” etc.
Thank you, Success! I had no idea I could populate the windrat field this way. I edited the competitor excel file by adding a concat function of the matching ratings columns, adding a , and space for making the csv file… I filled it with the 6 wind ratings and import this column to the wind ratings field. Works great! I certainly did not remember this feature.
Am I correct that you can load 9 separate ratings this way?
I am unaware of any limitation on the number of ratings in the
wind-indexed space but my general computer experience would be that
maybe there is a limit of 256 characters - but that is probably more
applicable for the names than the actual ratings field.
Well, I loaded 8 ratings into the windrat field single number and three winds.
I would build a separate blw template for the point to point distance ratings.
I discovered that you can’t merge results from a blw file with a different order of wind speed ratings… It creates another competitor entry.
My final question… Is there anyway to publish the rating used for that race? I can publish the entire field of all 8 4 decimal place numbers… but that is just gibberish to the user looking at an individual race score sheet. You can see the rating used in the audit field for a particular boat. Is there anyway to get that put on the score sheet. Something like a tick box just like BCE or BCR?
In the past we used Wind indexed ratings. To publish the rating used for a individuaL race, set publish Rating column to Yes and select Publish individual race tables. This will leave the Rating field in the summary table blank which might be a bug, but it lists the actual rating used for the race in the individual race table
Yes Pv. From my experience this publishes the complete Wind ratings field but not the exact rating used by selecting the race’s wind range.
What am I missing? (Thanks to Art, I fully understand the wind ratings field.)
IME, it was not pretty using portsmouth with 4 wind ratings (multihulls) but with ORC, I have the field populated with 8 4 decimal point ratings and its down right confusing on the individual race results page.
My hope is that there is way to publish the specific wind rating used. This is the output the club uses from Yacht scoring as well. Granted the utility of publishing the specific rating, elapsed, corrected, BCE and BCR is for the sailor to do their own audit of the scoresheet and their own performance.
I clearly didn’t explain it correctly. I have a couple links that show what I was trying to say.
Link to results with boats having different ratings (wind rating) from race to race : https://www.dropbox.com/s/t7morv0xzcgfvhy/Sailwave%20results%20for%20Aug%2010-11%20Weekend%20at%20Wabamun%20Sailing%20Club%202021.html?dl=0
Link to the Sailwave that published the html file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4dxg6d5c4tzj2z1/Aug-10-11-Weekend.blw?dl=0
As you can see the boats’ ratings (wind ratings) change in some of the individual races. The only way you can display that field is by displaying the Rating field which is not the wind rating, it’s the default rating which is not populated in our case. It would be nice if Jon could add to the individual race tables options a “Include rating” check and this would display the rating used to calculate the corrected time for that boat in that race.
I just noticed that the 1st palace BCR is not always the same as the rating. I’m not sure if this is intended.
I hope that this helps.
HI Peter… Outstanding. Thank you for the links. When you leave the rating field blank…SW populates the result table with the actual rating used from the windspeed rating field in the duh… rating field!.. Once again I had no idea… For portsmouth racing… we used the USA or SCHRS published ratings table database and sucked in each competitors rating from the table. Of course for Portsmouth this populated both DPN into the rating field and the wind ratings into the winrate field … PHRF and SCHRS are single number systems and so we mapped the single rating to the ratings field. So, I never had an unpopulated rating field!
In my hands, Sailwave is selecting the proper wind rating for publishing and the BCR calculation is matching the first place finisher. (Lots of rounding involved with OCR 4 decimal point ratings (grin) ) I noticed the mismatch in your results as well???
One of the problems of being around from the beginning is that you don’t solve the problem with fresh eyes… ever!
Thanks all, its been fun!
Just one thing to note, Sailwave cannot change on a race by race basis the rating formula used. This means you cannot have some races in a series ToT and others ToD, i.e. all races must either be ToT or ToD.
I suspect there is a limit on the number of wind-indexed ratings that can be accommodated in Sailwave, but I am quite confident that if a limit was hit, Jon could raise the limit.
Hi Hu… HA… I did know that you can’t mix scoring systems that way! (grin).
I don’t think there is any problem with the number of ratings available in the wind rat field. Eight ratings in the drop down menu is plenty.
My only bit of value add is to make life easy on yourself when you put ratings in Win rate field of your registration file is to add a space in the excell and consequently the csv file between each rating. It does not impact the scoring and it makes looking at the ratings in sailwave doable, especially when you are auditing the results.
The first place boats now have the correct BCR. I probably changed a wind band and published the results without rescoring it.
Including a “Include rating” check option for individual race tables would make things a bit cleaner.