Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to find how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which was used for the first race result, is set-up so that each following race the handicap is automatically modified based on the results of the boats in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a written guide on how to set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
Hi,
Welcome to Sailwave. If you go to Tools - Assign personal Handicaps.this will get you started.
If you want to do something more complicated there are some threads on here. Let us know if this meets all your requirements
Jon
···
On 1 December 2012 05:54, mooloolabayachtclub mooloolabayachtclub@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to find how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which was used for the first race result, is set-up so that each following race the handicap is automatically modified based on the results of the boats in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a written guide on how to set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
–
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”
A Sailwave User Guide is available from http://www.abyc.org/upload/Sailwave_ABYC_User_Guide.pdf
···
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
From: mooloolabayachtclub@yahoo.com.au
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 05:54:09 +0000
Subject: [sailwave] PHRF Handicaps
Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to find how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which was used for the first race result, is set-up so that each following race the handicap is automatically modified based on the results of the boats in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a written guide on how to set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
Jon
In talking to a tame Rules Guru the other
night I was alerted that the 2013-16 racing rules was replacing the Did Not
Finish (DNF) and Retired After Finishing (RAF) codes with the earlier word “Retired”
(RTD) and as far as I am concerned the one we always use when referring to a
boat that voluntarily withdrew from the race or the results.
Will we have RTD as a code in the current
version before Jan1, 2013 when the new rules come into operation?
Regards
Brian
Tel 01344-761642
Mobile
07711-796125
···
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Eskdale
Sent: 01 December 2012 11:52
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] PHRF
Handicaps
Hi,
Welcome to Sailwave. If you go to Tools - Assign personal Handicaps.this
will get you started.
If you want to do something more complicated there are some threads on
here. Let us know if this meets all your requirements
Jon
On 1 December 2012 05:54, mooloolabayachtclub mooloolabayachtclub@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am
failing to find how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which was
used for the first race result, is set-up so that each following race the
handicap is automatically modified based on the results of the boats in the
previous race. Is there, somewhere, a written guide on how to set-up and run
PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
–
Jon Eskdale
07976
709777
Skype “eskdale”
Hi Brian,
Nice to hear from you. Yes it’s already done. If you load the latest version and generate a new series you won’t find the RAF but you will an RTD. There are some threads here on the User Group about it. Just to remind people that if you are creating your new series from an old one you will have to edit the codes yourself. Because the codes stay with the Series - Which is what you need otherwise you couldn’t re-score an older series. Just have a search for the past recent topics in November.
Jon
···
On 1 December 2012 15:56, Brian Welham bwelham@sky.com wrote:
Jon
In talking to a tame Rules Guru the other
night I was alerted that the 2013-16 racing rules was replacing the Did Not
Finish (DNF) and Retired After Finishing (RAF) codes with the earlier word “Retired”
(RTD) and as far as I am concerned the one we always use when referring to a
boat that voluntarily withdrew from the race or the results.
Will we have RTD as a code in the current
version before Jan1, 2013 when the new rules come into operation?
Regards
Brian
Tel 01344-761642
Mobile
07711-796125
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Eskdale
Sent: 01 December 2012 11:52
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] PHRF
Handicaps
Hi,
Welcome to Sailwave. If you go to Tools - Assign personal Handicaps.this
will get you started.If you want to do something more complicated there are some threads on
here. Let us know if this meets all your requirementsJon
On 1 December 2012 05:54, mooloolabayachtclub mooloolabayachtclub@yahoo.com.au
wrote:
Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am
failing to find how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which was
used for the first race result, is set-up so that each following race the
handicap is automatically modified based on the results of the boats in the
previous race. Is there, somewhere, a written guide on how to set-up and run
PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
–
Jon Eskdale
07976
709777
Skype “eskdale”
–
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”
Sailewave per se does not do exactly what you are wanting, i.e. the automatic updating of handicaps based on previous races. It can be done manually with the aid of the BCR (back calculated rating, or rating to win) figures produced by SW in each race for each contestant. These figures can be averaged to arrive at a value for the next race.
But I believe that our new developer has created an add-on which will do this - Jon?
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South Africa
···
On 2012/12/01 07:54, mooloolabayachtclub wrote:
Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to find how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which was used for the first race result, is set-up so that each following race the handicap is automatically modified based on the results of the boats in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a written guide on how to set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
In RRS2103-1, DNF remains, but RAF is replaced with RET.
In most cases, DNF is the code to allocate to someone who gives up, or gets rescued or gets out of time limit. RET is given to someone who commits a transgression on the water, but signs a retirement declaration once ashore, as per RRS Basic Principle, Sportsmanship and the Rules.
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South Africa
···
On 2012/12/01 18:04, Jon Eskdale wrote:
Hi Brian,
Nice to hear from you. Yes it's already done. If you load the latest version and generate a new series you won't find the RAF but you will an RTD. There are some threads here on the User Group about it. Just to remind people that if you are creating your new series from an old one you will have to edit the codes yourself. Because the codes stay with the Series - Which is what you need otherwise you couldn't re-score an older series. Just have a search for the past recent topics in November.
Jon
On 1 December 2012 15:56, Brian Welham <bwelham@sky.com > <mailto:bwelham@sky.com>> wrote:
Jon
In talking to a tame Rules Guru the other night I was alerted that
the 2013-16 racing rules was replacing the Did Not Finish (DNF)
and Retired After Finishing (RAF) codes with the earlier word
�Retired� (RTD) and as far as I am concerned the one we always use
when referring to a boat that voluntarily withdrew from the race
or the results.Will we have RTD as a code in the current version before Jan1,
2013 when the new rules come into operation?**Regards**
/*/Brian/*/
**Tel 01344-761642 <tel:01344-761642>**
**Mobile 07711-796125 <tel:07711-796125>**
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*sailwave@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Jon Eskdale
*Sent:* 01 December 2012 11:52
*To:* sailwave@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
*Subject:* Re: [sailwave] PHRF HandicapsHi,
Welcome to Sailwave. If you go to Tools - Assign personal
Handicaps.this will get you started.If you want to do something more complicated there are some
threads on here. Let us know if this meets all your requirementsJon
On 1 December 2012 05:54, mooloolabayachtclub > <mooloolabayachtclub@yahoo.com.au > <mailto:mooloolabayachtclub@yahoo.com.au>> wrote:
Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to
find how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which
was used for the first race result, is set-up so that each
following race the handicap is automatically modified based on the
results of the boats in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a
written guide on how to set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with
Sailwave ?-- Jon Eskdale
07976 709777 <tel:07976%20709777>
Skype "eskdale"
--
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype "eskdale"
Thanks Mark. Will chase up Jon as don't want to be doing manual handicapping !!
TraceyJ
···
--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Osborne <malcolmo@...> wrote:
Sailewave per se does not do exactly what you are wanting, i.e. the
automatic updating of handicaps based on previous races. It can be done
manually with the aid of the BCR (back calculated rating, or rating to
win) figures produced by SW in each race for each contestant. These
figures can be averaged to arrive at a value for the next race.But I believe that our new developer has created an add-on which will do
this - Jon?regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South AfricaOn 2012/12/01 07:54, mooloolabayachtclub wrote:
>
> Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to find
> how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which was used
> for the first race result, is set-up so that each following race the
> handicap is automatically modified based on the results of the boats
> in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a written guide on how to
> set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
>
>
This is dear to my heart too.
Over the last number of years, we used to just look at the places in our handicap races, and adjust them to try to get everyone finishing together. With our handicap races, we start at different times, hopefully finishing at the same time.
I have now taken this over and am trying to average the last 4 races ‘seconds behind winner’ (rounded to the nearest minute), to give all a new handicap. I am doing this using an excel spreadsheet, manually and calculating the handicap change for each boat. It is a good thing that we have a small club!
Any ideas, Jon?
Rob Morton
Pambula NSW Australia
···
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mooloolabayachtclub
Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2012 11:31
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: PHRF Handicaps
Thanks Mark. Will chase up Jon as don’t want to be doing manual handicapping !!
TraceyJ
— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Osborne <malcolmo@…> wrote:
Sailewave per se does not do exactly what you are wanting, i.e. the
automatic updating of handicaps based on previous races. It can be done
manually with the aid of the BCR (back calculated rating, or rating to
win) figures produced by SW in each race for each contestant. These
figures can be averaged to arrive at a value for the next race.But I believe that our new developer has created an add-on which will do
this - Jon?regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South AfricaOn 2012/12/01 07:54, mooloolabayachtclub wrote:
Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to find
how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which was used
for the first race result, is set-up so that each following race the
handicap is automatically modified based on the results of the boats
in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a written guide on how to
set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
Hi Rob,
The problem as I see it is there is no standard for Personal Handicap perhaps the nearest one being ECHO but even then there are potentially quite a few manual adjustments and parameters change.
I appreciate this is an area of interest to several people and I will have a solution in the near future but at this moment the best I can offer is the program that wrote a short while ago before I took over the Sailwave development and at that time had no way of modifying Sailwave. It is however a workable solution but now with my new role I can integrate it much tighter with Sailwave and make it much nicer to use but that is going to take a while as I’m still on a steep learning curve with the Sailwave source and the Language but we are getting there slowly.
But I’m interested in any info you can give me as to how you would like to see it develop. Any example of what you envisage doing would also be useful.
Averaging over the last 4 races - What do you do if you have less than 4 races as an example. And how do you handle exception circumstances or deliberate loosing to adjust handicap?
I think this type of solution where info from Sailwave is fed automatically into Excel and then you supply the formula in Excel which calculates the new rating and Excel automatically puts it back into Sailwave is the best until a “Standard” is defined. With my new role I will make the integration much slicker. If you haven’t already have a look at this
Details of the program are here
https://sites.google.com/site/eskdalesite/home/swph
Jon
···
On 2 December 2012 11:25, Rob Morton robmorton@ozemail.com.au wrote:
This is dear to my heart too.
Over the last number of years, we used to just look at the places in our handicap races, and adjust them to try to get everyone finishing together. With our handicap races, we start at different times, hopefully finishing at the same time.
I have now taken this over and am trying to average the last 4 races ‘seconds behind winner’ (rounded to the nearest minute), to give all a new handicap. I am doing this using an excel spreadsheet, manually and calculating the
handicap change for each boat. It is a good thing that we have a small club!
Any ideas, Jon?
Rob Morton
Pambula NSW Australia
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mooloolabayachtclub
Sent: Sunday, 2 Dec
ember 2012 11:31
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: PHRF Handicaps
Thanks Mark. Will chase up Jon as don’t want to be doing manual handicapping !!
TraceyJ
— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Osborne <malcolmo@…> wrote:
Sailewave per se does not do exactly what you are wanting, i.e. the
automatic updating of handicaps based on previous races. It can be done
manually with the aid of the BCR (back calculated rating, or rating towin) figures produced by SW in each race for each contestant. These
figures can be averaged to arrive at a value for the next race.
But I believe that our new developer has c
reated an add-on which will do
this - Jon?regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South AfricaOn 2012/12/01 07:54, mooloolabayachtclub wrote:
Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to find
how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which was used
for the first race result, is set-up so that each following race thehandicap is automatically modified based on the results of the boats
in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a written guide on how to
set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
–
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”
Thanks for your very quick response, Jon!
I can certainly see many problems with this, but many clubs and some regattas do hold handicap events, and there will always be compromises. Abnormal situations, people trying to go slower etc will always be a potential problem. I don’t have an answer to that.
Our club has chosen average over 4 races, but it could be just as easily 2 or 3. I have taken the stance that if people do not race, they will be counted as 0 secs behind the winner for those races, so will have potentially less handicap adjustment.
I will have a good look at your excel spreadsheet. I have been trying to work with time in excel and have difficulty using equations for two times, such as seconds behind the winner. I will keep trying
Cheers
Rob Morton
Pambula NSW Australia
···
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Eskdale
Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2012 22:48
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: PHRF Handicaps
Hi Rob,
The problem as I see it is there is no standard for Personal Handicap perhaps the nearest one being ECHO but even then there are potentially quite a few manual adjustments and parameters change.
I appreciate this is an area of interest to several people and I will have a solution in the near future but at this moment the best I can offer is the program that wrote a short while ago before I took over the Sailwave development and at that time had no way of modifying Sailwave. It is however a workable solution but now with my new role I can integrate it much tighter with Sailwave and make it much nicer to use but that is going to take a while as I’m still on a steep learning curve with the Sailwave source and the Language but we are getting there slowly.
But I’m interested in any info you can give me as to how you would like to see it develop. Any example of what you envisage doing would also be useful.
Averaging over the last 4 races - What do you do if you have less than 4 races as an example. And how do you handle exception circumstances or deliberate loosing to adjust handicap?
I think this type of solution where info from Sailwave is fed automatically into Excel and then you supply the formula in Excel which calculates the new rating and Excel automatically puts it back into Sailwave is the best until a “Standard” is defined. With my new role I will make the integration much slicker. If you haven’t already have a look at this
Details of the program are here
https://sites.google.com/site/eskdalesite/home/swph
Jon
On 2 December 2012 11:25, Rob Morton robmorton@ozemail.com.au wrote:
This is dear to my heart too.
Over the last number of years, we used to just look at the places in our handicap races, and adjust them to try to get everyone finishing together. With our handicap races, we start at different times, hopefully finishing at the same time.
I have now taken this over and am trying to average the last 4 races ‘seconds behind winner’ (rounded to the nearest minute), to give all a new handicap. I am doing this using an excel spreadsheet, manually and calculating the handicap change for each boat. It is a good thing that we have a small club!
Any ideas, Jon?
Rob Morton
Pambula NSW Australia
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mooloolabayachtclub
Sent: Sunday, 2 Dec ember 2012 11:31
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: PHRF Handicaps
Thanks Mark. Will chase up Jon as don’t want to be doing manual handicapping !!
TraceyJ
— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Osborne <malcolmo@…> wrote:
Sailewave per se does not do exactly what you are wanting, i.e. the
automatic updating of handicaps based on previous races. It can be done
manually with the aid of the BCR (back calculated rating, or rating to
win) figures produced by SW in each race for each contestant. These
figures can be averaged to arrive at a value for the next race.
But I believe that our new developer has c reated an add-on which will do
this - Jon?
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South AfricaOn 2012/12/01 07:54, mooloolabayachtclub wrote:
Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to find
how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which was used
for the first race result, is set-up so that each following race the
handicap is automatically modified based on the results of the boats
in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a written guide on how to
set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
–
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”
Hi Jon
I will resist loading a new version until
you have finished tweeking it but I found that I can add RTD to the list of
codes very easily so will be able to use my current version until the Spring
2013. However, I am very interested in a number of the features you have
been mentioning on the forum and will want to try them soon.
Previously as we use this for our club
racing when the participants (perhaps 80 odd) change infrequently I have taken the
previous series of each type of racing and just modified the race dates without
having to refill all the Competitor pages (especially as I am using Alias) as
well.
Is there a simple way of copying the Competitor
list from an old version of Sailwave into the new one that you are
producing. If so then I think more of the users will adopt the latest
version even if they don’t use all the new option.
Regards
Brian
Tel 01344-761642
Mobile
07711-796125
···
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Eskdale
Sent: 01 December 2012 16:05
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] DNF RAF RTD
Hi Brian,
Nice to hear from you. Yes it’s already done. If you load
the latest version and generate a new series you won’t find the RAF but you
will an RTD. There are some threads here on the User Group about it. Just
to remind people that if you are creating your new series from an old one you
will have to edit the codes yourself. Because the codes stay with the
Series - Which is what you need otherwise you couldn’t re-score an older
series. Just have a search for the past recent topics in November.
Jon
On 1 December 2012 15:56, Brian Welham bwelham@sky.com wrote:
Jon
In talking to a tame Rules Guru the other night I was alerted that
the 2013-16 racing rules was replacing the Did Not Finish (DNF) and Retired
After Finishing (RAF) codes with the earlier word “Retired” (RTD)
and as far as I am concerned the one we always use when referring to a boat that
voluntarily withdrew from the race or the results.
Will we have RTD as a code in the current version before Jan1, 2013
when the new rules come into operation?
Regards
Brian
Tel 01344-761642
Mobile 07711-796125
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Jon Eskdale
Sent: 01 December 2012 11:52
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] PHRF
Handicaps
Hi,
Welcome to Sailwave. If you go to Tools - Assign personal Handicaps.this
will get you started.
If you want to do something more complicated there are some threads on
here. Let us know if this meets all your requirements
Jon
On 1 December 2012 05:54, mooloolabayachtclub mooloolabayachtclub@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Starting
from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to find how to set up race
results so that the PHRF handicap, which was used for the first race result, is
set-up so that each following race the handicap is automatically modified based
on the results of the boats in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a
written guide on how to set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
–
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype
“eskdale”
–
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”
Hi Brian,
You should be able to open any of your current versions with the latest version. No need to import them they should all be there.
If you want to start a Series from scratch and import the competitors from another file. This is built into Sailwave. From the File menu just select the
Import competitors from a Sailwave file. You can also do this if you have some competitors from other events.
The biggest danger is going backwards in version numbers because the later versions might be using features which were not in the earlier versions
Lets take an example of the feature in 2.8.0 there is a new option to print starts in separate columns and there is a tick box to enable it. When you save your file it saves your selection. When you load the file, it sets the tick to that same way. Now if you open it in a pre 2.8 version it won’t understand this option so it ignores it. But if you save the file it won’t save it either, so when you load it again with 2.8 the selection will go back to off. Not a problem in most cases. Just keep a backup of you Sailwave (.blw file) and you are safe. If you rename your sailwave.exe to Sailwavex-x-x.exe before you copy in the new one you can switch back to your old exe as well if you every need to.
So no excuses now for not having a play!!
Jon
···
On 3 December 2012 15:01, Brian Welham bwelham@sky.com wrote:
Hi Jon
I will resist loading a new version until
you have finished tweeking it but I found that I can add RTD to the list of
codes very easily so will be able to use my current version until the Spring
2013. However, I am very interested in a number of the features you have
been mentioning on the forum and will want to try them soon.
Previously as we use this for our club
racing when the participants (perhaps 80 odd) change infrequently I have taken the
previous series of each type of racing and just modified the race dates without
having to refill all the Competitor pages (especially as I am using Alias) as
well.
Is there a simple way of copying the Competitor
list from an old version of Sailwave into the new one that you are
producing. If so then I think more of the users will adopt the latest
version even if they don’t use all the new option.
Regards
Brian
Tel 01344-761642
Mobile
07711-796125
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Eskdale
Sent: 01 December 2012 16:05
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] DNF RAF RTD
Hi Brian,
Nice to hear from you. Yes it’s already done. If you load
the latest version and generate a new series you won’t find the RAF but you
will an RTD. There are some threads here on the User Group about it. Just
to remind people that if you are creating your new series from an old one you
will have to edit the codes yourself. Because the codes stay with the
Series - Which is what you need otherwise you couldn’t re-score an older
series. Just have a search for the past recent topics in November.
Jon
On 1 December 2012 15:56, Brian Welham bwelham@sky.com wrote:
Jon
In talking to a tame Rules Guru the other night I was alerted that
the 2013-16 racing rules was replacing the Did Not Finish (DNF) and Retired
After Finishing (RAF) codes with the earlier word “Retired” (RTD)
and as far as I am concerned the one we always use when referring to a boat that
voluntarily withdrew from the race or the results.
Will we have RTD as a code in the current version before Jan1, 2013
when the new rules come into operation?
Regards
Brian
Tel 01344-761642
Mobile 07711-796125
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Jon Eskdale
Sent: 01 December 2012 11:52
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] PHRF
Handicaps
Hi,
Welcome to Sailwave. If you go to Tools - Assign personal Handicaps.this
will get you started.If you want to do something more complicated there are some threads on
here. Let us know if this meets all your requirementsJon
On 1 December 2012
05:54, mooloolabayachtclub mooloolabayachtclub@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Starting
from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to find how to set up race
results so that the PHRF handicap, which was used for the first race result, is
set-up so that each following race the handicap is automatically modified based
on the results of the boats in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a
written guide on how to set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
–
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype
“eskdale”
–
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”
–
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”
Rob et al,
Let me make a few observations here.
PHRF
First, PHRF is simply a handicap system, typically with rating issued in seconds per mile of adjustment from a base boat. It does not change after each race or even based solely on race results. Instead, a handicapping committee will set and adjust PHRF handicaps. The system of changing based solely on race results is known as "golf" or "skipper" handicapping in the US and usually uses PHRF handicaps as a starting point. That seems to have caused some confusion here.
I believe Sailwave pretty much always refers to "golf" or "skipper" handicaps as "personal handicaps." This can get confusing as both PHRF and "personal handicaps" tend to be abbreviated and referred to as "PH."
MEDIAN BOAT
I think you generally want to be using the median boat when making these kind of comparisons. [Median is middle of odd number of boats and average of middle two of even number of boats.]
If you use the first boat for comparison it is basically like realigning all boats to perform the same as the 1st-place boat. That moves the "average" of the fleet faster and faster with each recalculation. Any new boat could then have a significant advantage because she will start from the base handicap. Using multiple races should slow the trend but doesn't change its direction.
You don't want to use an average because of "outliers." Typically those will be boats that had some problem and aren't just last but are "way" last. That has no impact on the median but would have an impact on the average. Sometimes, you see the 33rd percentile used instead of median (also called 50th percentile). Probably not too bad. It is based on the assumption that the bottom third of a fleet is clueless so it uses the median of the top two-thirds of a fleet. While that might sometimes be true I suspect using the median would be at least as good and possibly better in all situations. Using the 33rd percentile should cause an upward bias like using the 1st-place boat, just not as strong.
INTENTIONALLY LOSING
I don't see an easy way to fix this. I don't think it breaks any rule (after all, you can attack a competitor to hurt his performance as long as you don't break a rule - I don't see any reason why you cannot sit on your own performance in the same way). Plus, it requires reading into the mind of the competitor, which is not yet scientifically possible (if it ever will be!).
One obvious way around this is to use the last X races ignoring the best and worst Y races. That should take care of the biggest "luck" factor (both good and bad). For example, I might use the middle three of the last five races. Methodology would be to: 1- calculate difference between this boat and the median boat for every race, 2- discard biggest and smallest differences, 3- calculate and use average of remaining three races, 4- take some percentage (might be 100% or might be less) and apply to the current race score.
My club uses just the last race (one race only) so we definitely see boats intentionally losing by big margins. We assume it will all work out in the end so don't worry too much about it (we adjust by 15% of the difference with a per-race cap). Using just the last race greatly simplifies the calculations and our scoring program (not Sailwave for those races) can handle it easily (it prints out the rating for the next race right in the results for the current race). [Sailwave can currently handle adjustments based on the last race but it only works for the 1st or last boat as comparator and I believe only applies 100% of the adjustment.]
I don't think you can include a non-result race (a race a boat doesn't sail in) as that makes assumptions about how the boat would have done - assumptions that are clearly wrong. Because of that, the calculation formula is somewhat more difficult although Excel handles that well as it ignores cells without data when calculating (cannot have a zero, it needs to be blank).
I briefly tested Jon's "outside Sailwave" solution and it is pretty decent. Most importantly, it allows customization of the calculation formula. The only downside is it is in a separate program and requires Excel to work.
Jon - I don't see a lot of incentive to put this into Sailwave although I know a lot of people want it. The problem is they all want something different. Your "outside" solution works quite well, I believe. The problem with putting it into Sailwave is it only makes sense if you can allow for the myriad of possible systems, and that seems like far more work then the potential benefit would justify.
Glitch - Some time ago Colin attempted to allow the use of automatic adjustments from the last race based on boats other than the 1st-place boat. The programming got messed up and that works for the 1st-place and last-place boat but not for the boats in between. If you could fix that it is probably worthwhile. I think that would do what the OP (mooloolabayachtclub@yahoo.com.au) asked about. I think it needs to be formula-based where you would write a formula for the adjustment to the current handicap (with a choice of variables for first, median and last).
For the record, I don't think it matters whether you use the technical median (average of two middle boats for even-sized finishers) or some approximation (first of two such middle boats). What does matter is the calculation is always the same. Currently, if you put in 50% Sailwave sometimes uses the middle of odd-sized fleets and sometimes uses the boat before the middle boat. And, if you have an even-sized fleet Sailwave sometimes uses the first and sometimes the second of the two middle boats. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to what Sailwave will do so it cannot be written up for the SIs.
Art
···
On 12/2/2012 4:13 AM, Rob Morton wrote:
Thanks for your very quick response, Jon!
I can certainly see many problems with this, but many clubs and some
regattas do hold handicap events, and there will always be compromises.
Abnormal situations, people trying to go slower etc will always be a
potential problem. I don't have an answer to that.Our club has chosen average over 4 races, but it could be just as easily 2
or 3. I have taken the stance that if people do not race, they will be
counted as 0 secs behind the winner for those races, so will have
potentially less handicap adjustment.I will have a good look at your excel spreadsheet. I have been trying to
work with time in excel and have difficulty using equations for two times,
such as seconds behind the winner. I will keep tryingCheers
Rob Morton
Pambula NSW Australia
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Jon Eskdale
Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2012 22:48
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: PHRF HandicapsHi Rob,
The problem as I see it is there is no standard for Personal Handicap
perhaps the nearest one being ECHO but even then there are potentially quite
a few manual adjustments and parameters change.I appreciate this is an area of interest to several people and I will have
a solution in the near future but at this moment the best I can offer is the
program that wrote a short while ago before I took over the Sailwave
development and at that time had no way of modifying Sailwave. It is
however a workable solution but now with my new role I can integrate it much
tighter with Sailwave and make it much nicer to use but that is going to
take a while as I'm still on a steep learning curve with the Sailwave source
and the Language but we are getting there slowly.But I'm interested in any info you can give me as to how you would like to
see it develop. Any example of what you envisage doing would also be
useful.Averaging over the last 4 races - What do you do if you have less than 4
races as an example. And how do you handle exception circumstances or
deliberate loosing to adjust handicap?I think this type of solution where info from Sailwave is fed automatically
into Excel and then you supply the formula in Excel which calculates the new
rating and Excel automatically puts it back into Sailwave is the best until
a "Standard" is defined. With my new role I will make the integration much
slicker. If you haven't already have a look at thisDetails of the program are here
https://sites.google.com/site/eskdalesite/home/swph
Jon
On 2 December 2012 11:25, Rob Morton<robmorton@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
This is dear to my heart too.
Over the last number of years, we used to just look at the places in our
handicap races, and adjust them to try to get everyone finishing together.
With our handicap races, we start at different times, hopefully finishing at
the same time.I have now taken this over and am trying to average the last 4 races
'seconds behind winner' (rounded to the nearest minute), to give all a new
handicap. I am doing this using an excel spreadsheet, manually and
calculating the handicap change for each boat. It is a good thing that we
have a small club!Any ideas, Jon?
Rob Morton
Pambula NSW Australia
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of mooloolabayachtclub
Sent: Sunday, 2 Dec ember 2012 11:31
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: PHRF HandicapsThanks Mark. Will chase up Jon as don't want to be doing manual handicapping
!!TraceyJ
--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Malcolm Osborne<malcolmo@...> wrote:Sailewave per se does not do exactly what you are wanting, i.e. the
automatic updating of handicaps based on previous races. It can be done
manually with the aid of the BCR (back calculated rating, or rating to
win) figures produced by SW in each race for each contestant. These
figures can be averaged to arrive at a value for the next race.But I believe that our new developer has c reated an add-on which will do
this - Jon?
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South AfricaOn 2012/12/01 07:54, mooloolabayachtclub wrote:
Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to find
how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which was used
for the first race result, is set-up so that each following race the
handicap is automatically modified based on the results of the boats
in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a written guide on how to
set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
So don’t describe the handicap system in the SI’s ! IME, just a brief description (e.g. Portsmouth Yardstick or Personal Handicap) in the NoR works. IMHO, there’s no need to explain how the handicaps are calculated…
Mike
Lancing SC
···
— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Art Engel <artengel123@…> wrote:
There seems to be no rhyme or reason to what Sailwave will
do so it ** cannot be written up for the SIs.**
I don't believe you can score except according to some "rule." And, it isn't a "rule" unless it is written down and explained somewhere. For Portsmouth or IRC, their websites explain how to do the scoring and they have a list of handicaps so a competitor can look up the correct handicap and check that the race was scored correctly.
If you are going to come up with new handicaps then I think you need to explain how you did it. It is certainly OK to say "Handicaps are completely arbitrary and generated at random by flipping coins" and that would be sufficient IF THAT IS IN FACT HOW THE HANDICAPS ARE GENERATED. But, I think if a club generates its own handicaps then it needs to describe how it does that, completely and accurately.
If you cannot figure out how Sailwave generates "personal handicaps" (which I don't think can be done in certain circumstances, at least as of now) then I don't think they should be used. It just doesn't "smell right." Not sure if I would grant redress as a PC member but it certainly approaches that level, in my opinion. Scoring has to be transparent and if you adjust handicaps as part of the scoring process then I think that needs to be transparent also.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Art
···
On 12/4/2012 1:27 AM, Mike wrote:
--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Art Engel<artengel123@...> wrote:
There seems to be no rhyme or reason to what Sailwave will
do so it cannot be written up for the SIs.So don't describe the handicap system in the SI's ! IME, just a brief
description (e.g. Portsmouth Yardstick or Personal Handicap) in the NoR
works. IMHO, there's no need to explain how the handicaps are
calculated.....MikeLancing SC
Picking up on a minor point.
Can we ensure that any solutions that need data to be transferred to spreadsheet will work on free OpenOffice as well as Excel!
Us cheapskates prefer the free programme!
Gordon
···
On 04/12/2012 00:58, Art Engel wrote:
Rob et al,
Let me make a few observations here.
PHRF
First, PHRF is simply a handicap system, typically with rating issued in
seconds per mile of adjustment from a base boat. It does not change
after each race or even based solely on race results. Instead, a
handicapping committee will set and adjust PHRF handicaps. The system of
changing based solely on race results is known as "golf" or "skipper"
handicapping in the US and usually uses PHRF handicaps as a starting
point. That seems to have caused some confusion here.I believe Sailwave pretty much always refers to "golf" or "skipper"
handicaps as "personal handicaps." This can get confusing as both PHRF
and "personal handicaps" tend to be abbreviated and referred to as "PH."MEDIAN BOAT
I think you generally want to be using the median boat when making these
kind of comparisons. [Median is middle of odd number of boats and
average of middle two of even number of boats.]If you use the first boat for comparison it is basically like realigning
all boats to perform the same as the 1st-place boat. That moves the
"average" of the fleet faster and faster with each recalculation. Any
new boat could then have a significant advantage because she will start
from the base handicap. Using multiple races should slow the trend but
doesn't change its direction.You don't want to use an average because of "outliers." Typically those
will be boats that had some problem and aren't just last but are "way"
last. That has no impact on the median but would have an impact on the
average. Sometimes, you see the 33rd percentile used instead of median
(also called 50th percentile). Probably not too bad. It is based on the
assumption that the bottom third of a fleet is clueless so it uses the
median of the top two-thirds of a fleet. While that might sometimes be
true I suspect using the median would be at least as good and possibly
better in all situations. Using the 33rd percentile should cause an
upward bias like using the 1st-place boat, just not as strong.INTENTIONALLY LOSING
I don't see an easy way to fix this. I don't think it breaks any rule
(after all, you can attack a competitor to hurt his performance as long
as you don't break a rule - I don't see any reason why you cannot sit on
your own performance in the same way). Plus, it requires reading into
the mind of the competitor, which is not yet scientifically possible (if
it ever will be!).One obvious way around this is to use the last X races ignoring the best
and worst Y races. That should take care of the biggest "luck" factor
(both good and bad). For example, I might use the middle three of the
last five races. Methodology would be to: 1- calculate difference
between this boat and the median boat for every race, 2- discard biggest
and smallest differences, 3- calculate and use average of remaining
three races, 4- take some percentage (might be 100% or might be less)
and apply to the current race score.My club uses just the last race (one race only) so we definitely see
boats intentionally losing by big margins. We assume it will all work
out in the end so don't worry too much about it (we adjust by 15% of the
difference with a per-race cap). Using just the last race greatly
simplifies the calculations and our scoring program (not Sailwave for
those races) can handle it easily (it prints out the rating for the next
race right in the results for the current race). [Sailwave can currently
handle adjustments based on the last race but it only works for the 1st
or last boat as comparator and I believe only applies 100% of the
adjustment.]I don't think you can include a non-result race (a race a boat doesn't
sail in) as that makes assumptions about how the boat would have done -
assumptions that are clearly wrong. Because of that, the calculation
formula is somewhat more difficult although Excel handles that well as
it ignores cells without data when calculating (cannot have a zero, it
needs to be blank).I briefly tested Jon's "outside Sailwave" solution and it is pretty
decent. Most importantly, it allows customization of the calculation
formula. The only downside is it is in a separate program and requires
Excel to work.Jon - I don't see a lot of incentive to put this into Sailwave although
I know a lot of people want it. The problem is they all want something
different. Your "outside" solution works quite well, I believe. The
problem with putting it into Sailwave is it only makes sense if you can
allow for the myriad of possible systems, and that seems like far more
work then the potential benefit would justify.Glitch - Some time ago Colin attempted to allow the use of automatic
adjustments from the last race based on boats other than the 1st-place
boat. The programming got messed up and that works for the 1st-place and
last-place boat but not for the boats in between. If you could fix that
it is probably worthwhile. I think that would do what the OP
(mooloolabayachtclub@yahoo.com.au <mailto:mooloolabayachtclub%40yahoo.com.au>) asked about. I think it needs to be
formula-based where you would write a formula for the adjustment to the
current handicap (with a choice of variables for first, median and last).For the record, I don't think it matters whether you use the technical
median (average of two middle boats for even-sized finishers) or some
approximation (first of two such middle boats). What does matter is the
calculation is always the same. Currently, if you put in 50% Sailwave
sometimes uses the middle of odd-sized fleets and sometimes uses the
boat before the middle boat. And, if you have an even-sized fleet
Sailwave sometimes uses the first and sometimes the second of the two
middle boats. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to what Sailwave will
do so it cannot be written up for the SIs.Art
On 12/2/2012 4:13 AM, Rob Morton wrote:
> Thanks for your very quick response, Jon!
>
> I can certainly see many problems with this, but many clubs and some
> regattas do hold handicap events, and there will always be compromises.
> Abnormal situations, people trying to go slower etc will always be a
> potential problem. I don't have an answer to that.
>
> Our club has chosen average over 4 races, but it could be just as easily 2
> or 3. I have taken the stance that if people do not race, they will be
> counted as 0 secs behind the winner for those races, so will have
> potentially less handicap adjustment.
>
> I will have a good look at your excel spreadsheet. I have been trying to
> work with time in excel and have difficulty using equations for two times,
> such as seconds behind the winner. I will keep trying
>
> Cheers
>
> Rob Morton
>
> Pambula NSW Australia
>
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
> Of Jon Eskdale
> Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2012 22:48
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: PHRF Handicaps
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> The problem as I see it is there is no standard for Personal Handicap
> perhaps the nearest one being ECHO but even then there are potentially quite
> a few manual adjustments and parameters change.
>
> I appreciate this is an area of interest to several people and I will have
> a solution in the near future but at this moment the best I can offer is the
> program that wrote a short while ago before I took over the Sailwave
> development and at that time had no way of modifying Sailwave. It is
> however a workable solution but now with my new role I can integrate it much
> tighter with Sailwave and make it much nicer to use but that is going to
> take a while as I'm still on a steep learning curve with the Sailwave source
> and the Language but we are getting there slowly.
>
> But I'm interested in any info you can give me as to how you would like to
> see it develop. Any example of what you envisage doing would also be
> useful.
>
> Averaging over the last 4 races - What do you do if you have less than 4
> races as an example. And how do you handle exception circumstances or
> deliberate loosing to adjust handicap?
>
> I think this type of solution where info from Sailwave is fed automatically
> into Excel and then you supply the formula in Excel which calculates the new
> rating and Excel automatically puts it back into Sailwave is the best until
> a "Standard" is defined. With my new role I will make the integration much
> slicker. If you haven't already have a look at this
>
> Details of the program are here
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/eskdalesite/home/swph
>
> Jon
>
> On 2 December 2012 11:25, Rob Morton<robmorton@ozemail.com.au > <mailto:robmorton%40ozemail.com.au>> wrote:
>
> This is dear to my heart too.
>
> Over the last number of years, we used to just look at the places in our
> handicap races, and adjust them to try to get everyone finishing together.
> With our handicap races, we start at different times, hopefully finishing at
> the same time.
>
> I have now taken this over and am trying to average the last 4 races
> 'seconds behind winner' (rounded to the nearest minute), to give all a new
> handicap. I am doing this using an excel spreadsheet, manually and
> calculating the handicap change for each boat. It is a good thing that we
> have a small club!
>
> Any ideas, Jon?
>
> Rob Morton
>
> Pambula NSW Australia
>
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
> Of mooloolabayachtclub
> Sent: Sunday, 2 Dec ember 2012 11:31
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [sailwave] Re: PHRF Handicaps
>
> Thanks Mark. Will chase up Jon as don't want to be doing manual handicapping
> !!
>
> TraceyJ
>
> --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> Malcolm Osborne<malcolmo@...> wrote:
>>
>> Sailewave per se does not do exactly what you are wanting, i.e. the
>> automatic updating of handicaps based on previous races. It can be done
>> manually with the aid of the BCR (back calculated rating, or rating to
>> win) figures produced by SW in each race for each contestant. These
>> figures can be averaged to arrive at a value for the next race.
>>
>
>> But I believe that our new developer has c reated an add-on which will do
>
>> this - Jon?
>>
>> regards,
>> Malcolm Osborne
>> Sedgefield South Africa
>>
>> On 2012/12/01 07:54, mooloolabayachtclub wrote:
>>>
>>> Starting from scatch as a novice Sailwave user, I am failing to find
>>> how to set up race results so that the PHRF handicap, which was used
>>> for the first race result, is set-up so that each following race the
>>> handicap is automatically modified based on the results of the boats
>>> in the previous race. Is there, somewhere, a written guide on how to
>>> set-up and run PHRF handicap racing with Sailwave ?
>>>
>>
>
Not so look to irc offshore ratings. The will not disclose the calculation the use to create the rating,
You refer to irc and all is ok.
Mike b. ij
···
Sent from my iPad mike butterfield
On 4 Dec 2012, at 09:49, “Art Engel” artengel123@earthlink.net wrote:
I don’t believe you can score except according to some “rule.” And, it
isn’t a “rule” unless it is written down and explained somewhere. For
Portsmouth or IRC, their websites explain how to do the scoring and they
have a list of handicaps so a competitor can look up the correct
handicap and check that the race was scored correctly.If you are going to come up with new handicaps then I think you need to
explain how you did it. It is certainly OK to say “Handicaps are
completely arbitrary and generated at random by flipping coins” and that
would be sufficient IF THAT IS IN FACT HOW THE HANDICAPS ARE GENERATED.
But, I think if a club generates its own handicaps then it needs to
describe how it does that, completely and accurately.If you cannot figure out how Sailwave generates “personal handicaps”
(which I don’t think can be done in certain circumstances, at least as
of now) then I don’t think they should be used. It just doesn’t “smell
right.” Not sure if I would grant redress as a PC member but it
certainly approaches that level, in my opinion. Scoring has to be
transparent and if you adjust handicaps as part of the scoring process
then I think that needs to be transparent also.Just my 2 cents worth.
Art
On 12/4/2012 1:27 AM, Mike wrote:
— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Art Engel<artengel123@…> wrote:
There seems to be no rhyme or reason to what Sailwave will
do so it cannot be written up for the SIs.So don’t describe the handicap system in the SI’s ! IME, just a brief
description (e.g. Portsmouth Yardstick or Personal Handicap) in the NoR
works. IMHO, there’s no need to explain how the handicaps are
calculated…MikeLancing SC
Py is actually like this. Look to old club numbers or trial numbers. You just invent them. I do py for cruisers where data is scarce. I assess what should be used for every race.
Mike b ij
···
Sent from my iPad mike butterfield
On 4 Dec 2012, at 09:49, “Art Engel” artengel123@earthlink.net wrote:
I don’t believe you can score except according to some “rule.” And, it
isn’t a “rule” unless it is written down and explained somewhere. For
Portsmouth or IRC, their websites explain how to do the scoring and they
have a list of handicaps so a competitor can look up the correct
handicap and check that the race was scored correctly.If you are going to come up with new handicaps then I think you need to
explain how you did it. It is certainly OK to say “Handicaps are
completely arbitrary and generated at random by flipping coins” and that
would be sufficient IF THAT IS IN FACT HOW THE HANDICAPS ARE GENERATED.
But, I think if a club generates its own handicaps then it needs to
describe how it does that, completely and accurately.If you cannot figure out how Sailwave generates “personal handicaps”
(which I don’t think can be done in certain circumstances, at least as
of now) then I don’t think they should be used. It just doesn’t “smell
right.” Not sure if I would grant redress as a PC member but it
certainly approaches that level, in my opinion. Scoring has to be
transparent and if you adjust handicaps as part of the scoring process
then I think that needs to be transparent also.Just my 2 cents worth.
Art
On 12/4/2012 1:27 AM, Mike wrote:
— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Art Engel<artengel123@…> wrote:
There seems to be no rhyme or reason to what Sailwave will
do so it cannot be written up for the SIs.So don’t describe the handicap system in the SI’s ! IME, just a brief
description (e.g. Portsmouth Yardstick or Personal Handicap) in the NoR
works. IMHO, there’s no need to explain how the handicaps are
calculated…MikeLancing SC
Hi Art,
I briefly tested Jon’s “outside Sailwave” solution and it is pretty
decent. Most importantly, it allows customization of the calculation
formula. The only downside is it is in a separate program and requires
Excel to work.
Thanks for testing it
Jon - I don’t see a lot of incentive to put this into Sailwave although
I know a lot of people want it. The problem is they all want something
different. Your “outside” solution works quite well, I believe. The
problem with putting it into Sailwave is it only makes sense if you can
allow for the myriad of possible systems, and that seems like far more
work then the potential benefit would justify
I agree the big problem is that everyone wants something different - Maybe someday there will be a standard and I can build it in. I think the outside solution works at the moment but I am working on having it tightly integrated so that it will work almost as if it is inside Sailwave - changes that you make in the outside program will immediately be reflected in Sailwave.
Excel is an excellent product and something that many people can use. I know Gordon and some others would like to use OpenOffice but with Excel I can automatically control it and hence feed and read the data from it automatically as well. If we can get the formula used to a few commands then I could implement the worksheet in the external app and not require Excel or OpenOffice but I guess that is the next stage after the tight integration, and some feedback from users on the formula they need.
Glitch - Some time ago Colin attempted to allow the use of automatic
adjustments from the last race based on boats other than the 1st-place
boat. The programming got messed up and that works for the 1st-place and
last-place boat but not for the boats in between. If you could fix that
it is probably worthwhile
Art - It’s not something I have ever needed before so have never used it. If you could email a simple file and instructions on how to produce the issue I will fix it.
What does matter is the
calculation is always the same. Currently, if you put in 50% Sailwave
sometimes uses the middle of odd-sized fleets and sometimes uses the
boat before the middle boat. And, if you have an even-sized fleet
Sailwave sometimes uses the first and sometimes the second of the two
middle boats. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to what Sailwave will
do so it cannot be written up for the SIs.
Again if you could supply me a simple file and any instructions I will tell you what rules Sailwave is using and then we can agree which ones to make it use.
I don’t believe you can score except according to some “rule.” And, it
isn’t a “rule” unless it is written down and explained somewhere. For
Portsmouth or IRC, their websites explain how to do the scoring and they
have a list of handicaps so a competitor can look up the correct
handicap and check that the race was scored correctly.
Scoring has to be
transparent and if you adjust handicaps as part of the scoring process
then I think that needs to be transparent also.
Art - I totally agree with you on this one which is why I rather like the outside Sailwave solution in that the calculation is available for anyone to see and there is an audit trail of the calculation. Interestingly last year I used my Outside Sailwave solution to rescore a major regatta that had Personal Handicaps and was scored using Sail100. The results were close but they were not identical. But I could check the workings of mine but could not check the Sail100 as it was built into the program. I did leave a message at the time to the author but I didn’t get a response.
Jon