Juniors had made ALL 8 Q-race and 2 F-race. There can be only one discard from
final series.
Seniors made "only 7 Q-race and 2 F-race. There can not be any discards from final
series unless we make a 3rd (F3 and F4 tomorrow).
I'll attatch a preliminary sw-file from juniors...
Cheers
Anders Landenstad
On Fri Aug 7 16:32 , 'Ralph Tingle' <rat@attat.com> sent:
···
Hi Anders
Not sure what your problem is - don't quite understand junior
& senior case & I cannot get the SIs off your web
site
Are these the Youths & Senior regattas & the SIs
have different scoring rules?
If so, I presume that you must have two SW files for the two
different scoring systems
I am sure that you will have already got this far so
what is your problem?
Hi, I'm scoring the Laser Europeans and the first two final race is
finnished.
The SI says that only one race in the final series can be
discarded if 8 Q-race are sailed. - This is the "junior case".
The SI
says that if two F-races are sailed non F-races can be discarded if 7 Q-race are
sailed - This is the "senior case". From the 3rd F-race one F-race can be
discarded.
Hi Anders
The file that you sent does not show max no of discards in finals
This is why both discards are being taken in the finals eg sail no 192680
If you enter 0,1 in the box this means that 1 discard can be taken in the
finals when 2 finals races have been completed
If you enter 0,0 in the box NO discards will be taken from the finals
Juniors had made ALL 8 Q-race and 2 F-race. There can be only one discard
from final series.
Seniors made "only 7 Q-race and 2 F-race. There can not be any discards from
final series unless we make a 3rd (F3 and F4 tomorrow).
I'll attatch a preliminary sw-file from juniors...
Cheers
Anders Landenstad
On Fri Aug 7 16:32 , 'Ralph Tingle' <rat@attat.com> sent:
B
Hi Anders
B
Not sure what your problem is - don't quite understand junior & senior
case & I cannot get the SIs off yourB web site AreB these the Youths &
Senior regattas & the SIs have different scoring rules?
B
If so, I presume that you must have two SW files for the two different
scoring systems I am sure that you will have already got this far so
what is your problem?
B
Regards
Ralph
B
Hi, I'm scoring the Laser Europeans and the first two final race is
finnished.
The SI says that only one race in the final series can be discarded if
8 Q-race are sailed. - This is the "junior case".
The SI
says that if two F-races are sailed non F-races can be discarded if 7
Q-race are sailed - This is the "senior case". From the 3rd F-race one
F-race can be discarded.
Hi Anders
The file that you sent does not show max no of discards in finals
This is why both discards are being taken in the finals eg sail no 192680
If you enter 0,1 in the box this means that 1 discard can be taken in the
finals when 2 finals races have been completed
If you enter 0,0 in the box NO discards will be taken from the finals
Juniors had made ALL 8 Q-race and 2 F-race. There can be only one discard
from final series.
Seniors made "only 7 Q-race and 2 F-race. There can not be any discards from
final series unless we make a 3rd (F3 and F4 tomorrow).
I'll attatch a preliminary sw-file from juniors...
Cheers
Anders Landenstad
On Fri Aug 7 16:32 , 'Ralph Tingle' <rat@...> sent:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi Anders
>B
>Not sure what your problem is - don't quite understand junior & senior
>case & I cannot get the SIs off yourB web site AreB these the Youths &
>Senior regattas & the SIs have different scoring rules?
>B
>If so, I presume that you must have two SW files for the two different
>scoring systems I am sure that you will have already got this far so
>what is your problem?
>B
>Regards
>Ralph
>B
>
>
>
>From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anders Landenstad
>Sent: 07 August 2009 16:18
>To:
>sailwave@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [sailwave] URGENT! - Discard of races in an App LE Add C race
>
>
>B
>
>Hi, I'm scoring the Laser Europeans and the first two final race is
>finnished.
>
>The SI says that only one race in the final series can be discarded if
>8 Q-race are sailed. - This is the "junior case".
>
>The SI
>says that if two F-races are sailed non F-races can be discarded if 7
>Q-race are sailed - This is the "senior case". From the 3rd F-race one
>F-race can be discarded.
>
>Regards
>Anders Landenstad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
First of all it has been a great pleasure to score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+ lasers crossing the Finnish line in less than 6 minutes I probably would qualify as a sports commentator
It has not been a walk in the park scoring in SW but I have promised ILCA a guideline using the software. ILCA is preferring another Dutch software but is aware of the widely spread using of SW.
Setting up the regatta was very easy All competitor information was delivered by ILCA. We only had to check the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We had two courses Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I made the flight assignments. It was up to me to decide how. I sorted Nat and SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and Red. The Flights changed every day in the qualifying serie (8 races in 4 days) based on the overall result. Finals (Gold and Silver) was on the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done just before 20.00 regardless of open protest decisions or other unknown results. It all went OK.
But: ILCA has got different penalty system in the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a percentage penalty based on the biggest Fleet/Flight No problem the SI is clear about this and is handled by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me. Sailors could have penalty points added to the score and it could vary from 2, 8 10, 20 or whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then one PTS in the same race. This we need in SW PTS: Scoring points + N where N is set by hand. So if anyone above the PTS sailor is given for an example DNE the PTS sailor should have one place better when rescoring and the penalty score should follow. Now it was tricky to get it right.
But my biggest nightmare was when the finals were assigned and a review of score in the qualifying races came up SW couldnt change the results The only thing to do was copying all to excel and save the final races that was finished. Clear the final results, changing the wrong ones in the qualifications, rescore and importing results from CSV!
The organisers were very happy having me sorting out the problem. They wouldnt made it without my help Yes Im proud using SW.
I am attaching the final Youthfiles for further testing Try changing one PTS in the Q and rescore.
At last. Flightassignments is very hard to understand for normal users so I suggest the Flights and the flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead as most of Sis that I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave its almost always meaning flights.
Reading through your information on this event and the SI’s the only
reference I can find in the SI’s for PTS is in Rule 1
1.3 Add to rule RRS A11: ARB means scoring penalty
after arbitration, PTS scoring penalty for a yellow
*flag after finish.
As a scorer I would be questioning the Jury for a clear definition of
what PTS meant and how it was to be applied, also as a competitor. Was
there a Change to SI posted explaining exactly what PTS was given for
and its application? I have looked at the event website and cannot find
anything.
Kind regards,
Huw
Anders Landenstad (juniorsegling.se) wrote:
···
First of all it has been a great pleasure to
score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+ lasers crossing the Finnish
line in less than 6 minutes – I probably would qualify as a sports
commentator
It has not been “a walk in the park” scoring in
SW but I have promised ILCA a guideline using the software. ILCA is
preferring another “Dutch” software but is aware of the widely spread
using of SW.
Setting up the regatta was very easy – All
competitor information was delivered by ILCA. We “only” had to check
the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We had two courses
Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I made the flight assignments. It was up to me
to decide how. I sorted Nat and SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and
Red. The Flights changed every day in the qualifying serie (8 races in
4 days) based on the overall result. Finals (Gold and Silver) was on
the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done just before 20.00
regardless of open protest decisions or other “unknown” results. It all
went OK.
But: ILCA has got different penalty system in
the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a percentage penalty based on the biggest
“Fleet/Flight” – No problem the SI is clear about this and is handled
by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me. Sailors could have penalty
points added to the score and it could vary from 2, 8 10, 20 or
whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then one
PTS in the same race. This we need in SW – PTS: Scoring points + N
where N is set by hand. So if anyone above the “PTS” sailor is given
for an example DNE the “PTS” sailor should have one place better when
rescoring and the penalty score should follow. Now it was tricky to get
it right.
But my biggest “nightmare” was when the finals
were assigned and a review of score in the qualifying races came up –
SW couldn’t change the results – The only thing to do was copying all
to excel and save the final races that was finished. Clear the final
results, changing the “wrong” ones in the qualifications, rescore and
importing results from CSV!
The organisers were very happy having me
sorting out the problem. They wouldn’t made it without my help – Yes
I’m proud using SW.
I am attaching the final Youthfiles for further
testing – Try changing one PTS in the Q and rescore.
At last. Flightassignments is very hard to
understand for “normal users” so I suggest the Flights and the
flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead as most of Sis that
I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave it’s almost
always meaning flights.
Anders.
Just been looking at the Sailwave file you attached. With regards to
your ‘nightmare’ and changing a Q-series results after it seems
that an F-Series had been sailed, are you aware of the check box
labelled ‘Do not recalculate qualifying race points when at least one
finals race has been sailed’ on the ‘App LE Addendum C’ tab of the Edit
Scoring System window. I think this by default is ticked, but if taken
off I think it would have solved your ‘nightmare’. I haven’t
tried it out yet.
Kind regards,
Huw
Anders Landenstad (juniorsegling.se) wrote:
···
First of all it has been a great pleasure to
score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+ lasers crossing the Finnish
line in less than 6 minutes – I probably would qualify as a sports
commentator
It has not been “a walk in the park” scoring in
SW but I have promised ILCA a guideline using the software. ILCA is
preferring another “Dutch” software but is aware of the widely spread
using of SW.
Setting up the regatta was very easy – All
competitor information was delivered by ILCA. We “only” had to check
the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We had two courses
Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I made the flight assignments. It was up to me
to decide how. I sorted Nat and SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and
Red. The Flights changed every day in the qualifying serie (8 races in
4 days) based on the overall result. Finals (Gold and Silver) was on
the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done just before 20.00
regardless of open protest decisions or other “unknown” results. It all
went OK.
But: ILCA has got different penalty system in
the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a percentage penalty based on the biggest
“Fleet/Flight” – No problem the SI is clear about this and is handled
by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me. Sailors could have penalty
points added to the score and it could vary from 2, 8 10, 20 or
whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then one
PTS in the same race. This we need in SW – PTS: Scoring points + N
where N is set by hand. So if anyone above the “PTS” sailor is given
for an example DNE the “PTS” sailor should have one place better when
rescoring and the penalty score should follow. Now it was tricky to get
it right.
But my biggest “nightmare” was when the finals
were assigned and a review of score in the qualifying races came up –
SW couldn’t change the results – The only thing to do was copying all
to excel and save the final races that was finished. Clear the final
results, changing the “wrong” ones in the qualifications, rescore and
importing results from CSV!
The organisers were very happy having me
sorting out the problem. They wouldn’t made it without my help – Yes
I’m proud using SW.
I am attaching the final Youthfiles for further
testing – Try changing one PTS in the Q and rescore.
At last. Flightassignments is very hard to
understand for “normal users” so I suggest the Flights and the
flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead as most of Sis that
I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave it’s almost
always meaning flights.
The Sailors were penalized for various things. Example: 2 pts for crossing a racing field after finnish. 20 pts for not signing out and in and I think I had something else to… Allways after a jury decision.
Reading through your information on this event and the SI’s the only reference I can find in the SI’s for PTS is in Rule 1
1.3 Add to rule RRS A11: ARB means scoring penalty after arbitration, PTS scoring penalty for a yellow*
flag after finish.*
First of all it has been a great pleasure to score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+ lasers crossing the Finnish line in less than 6 minutes I probably would qualify as a sports commentator ;-)
It has not been a walk in the park scoring in SW but I have promised ILCA a guideline using the software. ILCA is preferring another Dutch software but is aware of the widely spread using of SW.
Setting up the regatta was very easy All competitor information was delivered by ILCA. We only had to check the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We had two courses Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I made the flight assignments. It was up to me to decide how. I sorted Nat and SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and Red. The Flights changed every day in the qualifying serie (8 races in 4 days) based on the overall result. Finals (Gold and Silver) was on the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done just before 20.00 regardless of open protest decisions or other unknown results. It all went OK.
But: ILCA has got different penalty system in the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a percentage penalty based on the biggest Fleet/Flight No problem the SI is clear about this and is handled by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me. Sailors could have penalty points added to the score and it could vary from 2, 8 10, 20 or whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then one PTS in the same race. This we need in SW PTS: Scoring points + N where N is set by hand. So if anyone above the PTS sailor is given for an example DNE the PTS sailor should have one place better when rescoring and the penalty score should follow. Now it was tricky to get it right.
But my biggest nightmare was when the finals were assigned and a review of score in the qualifying races came up SW couldnt change the results The only thing to do was copying all to excel and save the final races that was finished. Clear the final results, changing the wrong ones in the qualifications, rescore and importing results from CSV!
The organisers were very happy having me sorting out the problem. They wouldnt made it without my help Yes Im proud using SW.
I am attaching the final Youthfiles for further testing Try changing one PTS in the Q and rescore.
At last. Flightassignments is very hard to understand for normal users so I suggest the Flights and the flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead as most of Sis that I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave its almost always meaning flights.
Regards
Anders Landenstad
Proud SW-scorer
As a scorer I would be questioning the Jury for a clear definition of what PTS meant and how it was to be applied, also as a competitor. Was there a Change to SI posted explaining exactly what PTS was given for and its application? I have looked at the event website and cannot find anything.
First of all it has been a great pleasure to score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+ lasers crossing the Finnish line in less than 6 minutes – I probably would qualify as a sports commentator
It has not been “a walk in the park” scoring in SW but I have promised ILCA a guideline using the software. ILCA is preferring another “Dutch” software but is aware of the widely spread using of SW.
Setting up the regatta was very easy – All competitor information was delivered by ILCA. We “only” had to check the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We had two courses Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I made the flight assignments. It was up to me to decide how. I sorted Nat and SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and Red. The Flights changed every day in the qualifying serie (8 races in 4 days) based on the overall result. Finals (Gold and Silver) was on the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done just before 20.00 regardless of open protest decisions or other “unknown” results. It all went OK.
But: ILCA has got different penalty system in the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a percentage penalty based on the biggest “Fleet/Flight” – No problem the SI is clear about this and is handled by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me. Sailors could have penalty points added to the score and it could vary from 2, 8 10, 20 or whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then one PTS in the same race. This we need in SW – PTS: Scoring points + N where N is set by hand. So if anyone above the “PTS” sailor is given for an example DNE the “PTS” sailor should have one place better when rescoring and the penalty score should follow. Now it was tricky to get it right.
But my biggest “nightmare” was when the finals were assigned and a review of score in the qualifying races came up – SW couldn’t change the results – The only thing to do was copying all to excel and save the final races that was finished. Clear the final results, changing the “wrong” ones in the qualifications, rescore and importing results from CSV!
The organisers were very happy having me sorting out the problem. They wouldn’t made it without my help – Yes I’m proud using SW.
I am attaching the final Youthfiles for further testing – Try changing one PTS in the Q and rescore.
At last. Flightassignments is very hard to understand for “normal users” so I suggest the Flights and the flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead as most of Sis that I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave it’s almost always meaning flights.
Hi Anders,
Thanks for the prompt reply, it clarifies the problems you had.
Here in the UK in some events we do not include these penalty points as
part of the race results, i.e. a score directly related to a
race. We use a separate field against a competitor which is available
on the ‘Audit’ tab of the competitor information, it is labelled Series
penalty points. Colin included it as parents and competitors at Junior
and Youth events here in the UK were getting confused when I was using
a dummy race to record things like signing in/out penalties. It also
with a dummy race caused problems with discard profile and having to
remember to make it, the dummy race, non-discardable.
Having looked through your .BLW file I notice that the code PTS could
be discard, so in my view this does not cause the competitor to think
about the reason why they have been penalised and stop. Here in the UK
when sign in/out penalties are given they are not discardable so the
solution Colin came up with, described above, works because points
accumulated in the ‘Series penalty points’ field are added to the
series score.
However, it would be good if Colin could provide greater flexibility in
the use of the ‘Series penalty points’ field by allowing a comma
separated string of codes for which points can be set up in the same or
similar way that scoring codes are done (perhaps using the scoring code
facility and allowing the code to to be tagged as for use only with the
‘Series penalty points’ field). Additionally, it would be good if it
could include some way of recording against which race a particular
code was applied and allow for multiple such penalties per race.
Kind regards,
Huw
Anders Landenstad (juniorsegling.se) wrote:
···
Hi Huw,
The Sailors were penalized for
various things. Example: 2 pts for crossing a racing field after
finnish. 20 pts for not signing out and in and I think I had something
else to… Allways after a jury decision.
Reading through your information on this event and the SI’s the only
reference I can find in the SI’s for PTS is in Rule 1
1.3 Add to rule RRS A11: ARB means scoring penalty
after arbitration, PTS scoring penalty for a yellow
*flag after finish.
*
First of all it has been a great pleasure to
score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+ lasers crossing the Finnish
line in less than 6 minutes – I probably would qualify as a sports
commentator
It has not been “a walk in the park” scoring in
SW but I have promised ILCA a guideline using the software. ILCA is
preferring another “Dutch” software but is aware of the widely spread
using of SW.
Setting up the regatta was very easy – All
competitor information was delivered by ILCA. We “only” had to check
the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We had two courses
Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I made the flight assignments. It was up to me
to decide how. I sorted Nat and SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and
Red. The Flights changed every day in the qualifying serie (8 races in
4 days) based on the overall result. Finals (Gold and Silver) was on
the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done just before 20.00
regardless of open protest decisions or other “unknown” results. It all
went OK.
But: ILCA has got different penalty system in
the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a percentage penalty based on the biggest
“Fleet/Flight” – No problem the SI is clear about this and is handled
by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me. Sailors could have penalty
points added to the score and it could vary from 2, 8 10, 20 or
whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then one
PTS in the same race. This we need in SW – PTS: Scoring points + N
where N is set by hand. So if anyone above the “PTS” sailor is given
for an example DNE the “PTS” sailor should have one place better when
rescoring and the penalty score should follow. Now it was tricky to get
it right.
But my biggest “nightmare” was when the finals
were assigned and a review of score in the qualifying races came up –
SW couldn’t change the results – The only thing to do was copying all
to excel and save the final races that was finished. Clear the final
results, changing the “wrong” ones in the qualifications, rescore and
importing results from CSV!
The organisers were very happy having me
sorting out the problem. They wouldn’t made it without my help – Yes
I’m proud using SW.
I am attaching the final Youthfiles for further
testing – Try changing one PTS in the Q and rescore.
At last. Flightassignments is very hard to
understand for “normal users” so I suggest the Flights and the
flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead as most of Sis that
I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave it’s almost
always meaning flights.
Regards
Anders Landenstad
Proud SW-scorer
As a scorer I would be questioning the Jury for a clear definition of
what PTS meant and how it was to be applied, also as a competitor. Was
there a Change to SI posted explaining exactly what PTS was given for
and its application? I have looked at the event website and cannot find
anything.
Hi Anders,
Thanks for the prompt reply, it clarifies the problems you had.
Here in the UK in some events we do not include these penalty points as part of the race results, i.e . a score directly related to a race. We use a separate field against a competitor which is available on the ‘Audit’ tab of the competitor information, it is labelled Series penalty points. Colin included it as parents and competitors at Junior and Youth events here in the UK were getting confused when I was using a dummy race to record things like signing in/out penalties. It also with a dummy race caused problems with discard profile and having to remember to make it, the dummy race, non-discardable.
Having looked through your .BLW file I notice that the code PTS could be discard, so in my view this does not cause the competitor to think about the reason why they have been penalised and stop. Here in the UK when sign in/out penalties are given they are not discardable so the solution Colin came up with, described above, works because points accumulated in the ‘Series penalty points’ field are added to the series score.
However, it would be good if Colin could provide greater flexibility in the use of the ‘Series penalty points’ field by allowing a comma separated string of codes for which points can be set up in the same or similar way that scoring codes are done (perhaps using the scoring code facility and allowing the code to to be tagged as for use only with the ‘Series penalty points’ field). Additionally, it would be good if it could include some way of recording against which race a particular code was applied and allow for multiple such penalties per race.
Kind regards,
Huw
Anders Landenstad (juniorsegling.se) wrote:
Hi Huw,
The Sailors were penalized for various things. Example: 2 pts for crossing a racing field after finnish. 20 pts for not signing out and in and I think I had something else to... Allways after a jury decision.
Reading through your information on this event and the SI's the only reference I can find in the SI's for PTS is in Rule 1
1.3 Add to rule RRS A11: ARB means scoring penalty after arbitration, PTS scoring penalty for a yellow*
flag after finish.*
First of all it has been a great pleasure to score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+ lasers crossing the Finnish line in less than 6 minutes I probably would qualify as a sports commentator ;-)
It has not been a walk in the park scoring in SW but I have promised ILCA a guideline using the software. ILCA is preferring another Dutch software but is aware of the widely spread using of SW.
Setting up the regatta was very easy All competitor information was delivered by ILCA. We only had to check the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We had two courses Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I made the flight assignments. It was up to me to decide how. I sorted Nat and SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and Red. The Flights changed every day in the qualifying serie (8 races in 4 days) based on the overall result. Finals (Gold and Silver) was on the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done just before 20.00 regardless of open protest decisions or other unknown results. It all went OK.
But: ILCA has got different penalty system in the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a percentage penalty based on the biggest Fleet/Flight No problem the SI is clear about this and is handled by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me. Sailors could have penalty points added to the score and it could vary from 2, 8 10, 20 or whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then one PTS in the same race. This we need in SW PTS: Scoring points + N where N is set by hand. So if anyone above the PTS sailor is given for an example DNE the PTS sailor should have one place better when rescoring and the penalty score should follow. Now it was tricky to get it right.
But my biggest nightmare was when the finals were assigned and a review of score in the qualifying races came up SW couldnt change the results The only thing to do was copying all to excel and save the final races that was finished. Clear the final results, changing the wrong ones in the qualifications, rescore and importing results from CSV!
The organisers were very happy having me sorting out the problem. They wouldnt made it without my help Yes Im proud using SW.
I am attaching the final Youthfiles for further testing Try changing one PTS in the Q and rescore.
At last. Flightassignments is very hard to understand for normal users so I suggest the Flights and the flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead as most of Sis that I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave its almost always meaning flights.
Regards
Anders Landenstad
Proud SW-scorer
As a scorer I would be questioning the Jury for a clear definition of what PTS meant and how it was to be applied, also as a competitor. Was there a Change to SI posted explaining exactly what PTS was given for and its application? I have looked at the event website and cannot find anything.
Kind regards,
Agree but still have to get Colin to cope with a couple of things like
the Laser use of PTS. However the Laser class need to clarify if the
points for the infractions (Signing in/out and sailing in course area
after finishing) are to be part of the race result as Anders configured
and able to be discarded or they are penalty points that are added to
the series scores as we use frequently at Junior & Youth events
here in the UK.
Kind regards,
Huw
Philippe DE TROY wrote:
···
Anyway, if we want
to conquer the World, we should propose a pre§configured solution for
this Laser stuff…
The Sailors were penalized for
various things. Example: 2 pts for crossing a racing field after
finnish. 20 pts for not signing out and in and I think I had something
else to… Allways after a jury decision.
Reading through your information on this event and the SI’s the only
reference I can find in the SI’s for PTS is in Rule 1
1.3 Add to rule RRS A11: ARB means scoring
penalty after arbitration, PTS scoring penalty for a yellow
*flag after finish.
*
First of all it has been a great pleasure to
score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+ lasers crossing the Finnish
line in less than 6 minutes – I probably would qualify as a sports
commentator
It has not been “a walk in the park” scoring in
SW but I have promised ILCA a guideline using the software. ILCA is
preferring another “Dutch” software but is aware of the widely spread
using of SW.
Setting up the regatta was very easy – All
competitor information was delivered by ILCA. We “only” had to check
the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We had two courses
Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I made the flight assignments. It was up to me
to decide how. I sorted Nat and SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and
Red. The Flights changed every day in the qualifying serie (8 races in
4 days) based on the overall result. Finals (Gold and Silver) was on
the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done just before 20.00
regardless of open protest decisions or other “unknown” results. It all
went OK.
But: ILCA has got different penalty system in
the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a percentage penalty based on the biggest
“Fleet/Flight” – No problem the SI is clear about this and is handled
by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me. Sailors could have penalty
points added to the score and it could vary from 2, 8 10, 20 or
whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then one
PTS in the same race. This we need in SW – PTS: Scoring points + N
where N is set by hand. So if anyone above the “PTS” sailor is given
for an example DNE the “PTS” sailor should have one place better when
rescoring and the penalty score should follow. Now it was tricky to get
it right.
But my biggest “nightmare” was when the finals
were assigned and a review of score in the qualifying races came up –
SW couldn’t change the results – The only thing to do was copying all
to excel and save the final races that was finished. Clear the final
results, changing the “wrong” ones in the qualifications, rescore and
importing results from CSV!
The organisers were very happy having me
sorting out the problem. They wouldn’t made it without my help – Yes
I’m proud using SW.
I am attaching the final Youthfiles for further
testing – Try changing one PTS in the Q and rescore.
At last. Flightassignments is very hard to
understand for “normal users” so I suggest the Flights and the
flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead as most of Sis that
I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave it’s almost
always meaning flights.
Regards
Anders Landenstad
Proud SW-scorer
As a scorer I would be questioning the Jury for a clear definition of
what PTS meant and how it was to be applied, also as a competitor. Was
there a Change to SI posted explaining exactly what PTS was given for
and its application? I have looked at the event website and cannot find
anything.
Kind regards,
Huw
Anders Landenstad (juniorsegling.se) wrote:
Hi Anders,
Thanks for the prompt reply, it clarifies the problems you had.
Here in the UK in some events we do not include these penalty points as
part of the race results, i.e. a score directly related to a
race. We use a separate field against a competitor which is available
on the ‘Audit’ tab of the competitor information, it is labelled Series
penalty points. Colin included it as parents and competitors at Junior
and Youth events here in the UK were getting confused when I was using
a dummy race to record things like signing in/out penalties. It also
with a dummy race caused problems with discard profile and having to
remember to make it, the dummy race, non-discardable.
Having looked through your .BLW file I notice that the code PTS could
be discard, so in my view this does not cause the competitor to think
about the reason why they have been penalised and stop. Here in the UK
when sign in/out penalties are given they are not discardable so the
solution Colin came up with, described above, works because points
accumulated in the ‘Series penalty points’ field are added to the
series score.
However, it would be good if Colin could provide greater flexibility in
the use of the ‘Series penalty points’ field by allowing a comma
separated string of codes for which points can be set up in the same or
similar way that scoring codes are done (perhaps using the scoring code
facility and allowing the code to to be tagged as for use only with the
‘Series penalty points’ field). Additionally, it would be good if it
could include some way of recording against which race a particular
code was applied and allow for multiple such penalties per race.
As I remember for Europeans last year, there was a difference in rounding the percentage penalties, and/or the questio of ARB and PTS, best have a copy of the standard SI for Worlds and Continentals from the Laser Class Web site.
We scored with the Dutch ZW-scoring, and it was the same prblem the Laser template didn’t exist, but a utch judge was part of the development team of ZW and could help us making the configuration.
In my opinion, we should be able to propose a tailor-made solution, as their usual software is less popular in most parts of the World.
Agree but still have to get Colin to cope with a couple of things like the Laser use of PTS. However the Laser class need to clarify if the points for the infractions (Signing in/out and sailing in course area after finishing) are to be part of the race result as Anders configured and able to be discarded or they are penalty points that are added to the series scores as we use frequently at Junior & Youth events here in the UK.
Kind regards,
Huw
Philippe DE TROY wrote:
Anyway, if we want to conquer the World, we should propose a pre§configured solution for this Laser stuff...
The Sailors were penalized for various things. Example: 2 pts for crossing a racing field after finnish. 20 pts for not signing out and in and I think I had something else to... Allways after a jury decision.
Reading through your information on this event and the SI's the only reference I can find in the SI's for PTS is in Rule 1
1.3 Add to rule RRS A11: ARB means scoring penalty after arbitration, PTS scoring penalty for a yellow*
flag after finish.*
First of all it has been a great pleasure to score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+ lasers crossing the Finnish line in less than 6 minutes I probably would qualify as a sports commentator ;-)
It has not been a walk in the park scoring in SW but I have promised ILCA a guideline using the software. ILCA is preferring another Dutch software but is aware of the widely spread using of SW.
Setting up the regatta was very easy All competitor information was delivered by ILCA. We only had to check the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We had two courses Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I made the flight assignments. It was up to me to decide how. I sorted Nat and SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and Red. The Flights changed every day in the qualifying serie (8 races in 4 days) based on the overall result. Finals (Gold and Silver) was on the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done just before 20.00 regardless of open protest decisions or other unknown results. It all went OK.
But: ILCA has got different penalty system in the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a percentage penalty based on the biggest Fleet/Flight No problem the SI is clear about this and is handled by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me. Sailors could have penalty points added to the score and it could vary from 2, 8 10, 20 or whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then one PTS in the same race. This we need in SW PTS: Scoring points + N where N is set by hand. So if anyone above the PTS sailor is given for an example DNE the PTS sailor should have one place better when rescoring and the penalty score should follow. Now it was tricky to get it right.
But my biggest nightmare was when the finals were assigned and a review of score in the qualifying races came up SW couldnt change the results The only thing to do was copying all to excel and save the final races that was finished. Clear the final results, changing the wrong ones in the qualifications, rescore and importing results from CSV!
The organisers were very happy having me sorting out the problem. They wouldnt made it without my help Yes Im proud using SW.
I am attaching the final Youthfiles for further testing Try changing one PTS in the Q and rescore.
At last. Flightassignments is very hard to understand for normal users so I suggest the Flights and the flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead as most of Sis that I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave its almost always meaning flights.
Regards
Anders Landenstad
Proud SW-scorer
As a scorer I would be questioning the Jury for a clear definition of what PTS meant and how it was to be applied, also as a competitor. Was there a Change to SI posted explaining exactly what PTS was given for and its application? I have looked at the event website and cannot find anything.
Kind regards,
Huw
Anders Landenstad (juniorsegling.se) wrote:
Hi Anders,
Thanks for the prompt reply, it clarifies the problems you had.
Here in the UK in some events we do not include these penalty points as part of the race results, i.e . a score directly related to a race. We use a separate field against a competitor which is available on the ‘Audit’ tab of the competitor information, it is labelled Series penalty points. Colin included it as parents and competitors at Junior and Youth events here in the UK were getting confused when I was using a dummy race to record things like signing in/out penalties. It also with a dummy race caused problems with discard profile and having to remember to make it, the dummy race, non-discardable.
Having looked through your .BLW file I notice that the code PTS could be discard, so in my view this does not cause the competitor to think about the reason why they have been penalised and stop. Here in the UK when sign in/out penalties are given they are not discardable so the solution Colin came up with, described above, works because points accumulated in the 'Series penalty points' field are added to the series score.
However, it would be good if Colin could provide greater flexibility in the use of the 'Series penalty points' field by allowing a comma separated string of codes for which points can be set up in the same or similar way that scoring codes are done (perhaps using the scoring code facility and allowing the code to to be tagged as for use only with the 'Series penalty points' field). Additionally, it would be good if it could include some way of recording against which race a particular code was applied and allow for multiple such penalties per race.
Thanks for the pointers to additional issues. Next year there are 4
Laser events being held in the UK:
Radial Worlds Women
Radial Worlds
Laser Worlds
Laser Masters Worlds
The clubs that are hosting these are used to Sailwave and therefore
likely to use Sailwave to produce the results. I will try and work with
Colin to sort out the areas that have caused Anders a few problems. I
will go get the SI’s you mentioned but having looked at the SI’s for
the Laser Europeans there are definitions missing as how in particular
how the the PTS code is to be used to be used and as I said previously
if it can be discarded. Custom & practice appear to show that the
PTS is part of a race score and not an event penalty, but so far I have
not seen this written explicitly.
Kind regards,
Huw
Philippe DE TROY wrote:
···
Huw,
As I remember for
Europeans last year, there was a difference in rounding the percentage
penalties, and/or the questio of ARB and PTS, best have a copy of the
standard SI for Worlds and Continentals from the Laser Class Web site.
We scored with the
Dutch ZW-scoring, and it was the same prblem the Laser template didn’t
exist, but a utch judge was part of the development team of ZW and
could help us making the configuration.
In my opinion, we
should be able to propose a tailor-made solution, as their usual
software is less popular in most parts of the World.
Agree but still have to get Colin to cope with a couple of things like
the Laser use of PTS. However the Laser class need to clarify if the
points for the infractions (Signing in/out and sailing in course area
after finishing) are to be part of the race result as Anders configured
and able to be discarded or they are penalty points that are added to
the series scores as we use frequently at Junior & Youth events
here in the UK.
Kind regards,
Huw
Philippe DE TROY wrote:
Anyway, if we
want to conquer the World, we should propose a pre§configured solution
for this Laser stuff…
The Sailors were penalized
for various things. Example: 2 pts for crossing a racing field after
finnish. 20 pts for not signing out and in and I think I had something
else to… Allways after a jury decision.
Reading through your information on this event and the SI’s the only
reference I can find in the SI’s for PTS is in Rule 1
1.3 Add to rule RRS A11: ARB means scoring
penalty after arbitration, PTS scoring penalty for a yellow
*flag after finish.
*
First of all it has been a great pleasure to
score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+ lasers crossing the Finnish
line in less than 6 minutes – I probably would qualify as a sports
commentator
It has not been “a walk in the park” scoring in
SW but I have promised ILCA a guideline using the software. ILCA is
preferring another “Dutch” software but is aware of the widely spread
using of SW.
Setting up the regatta was very easy – All
competitor information was delivered by ILCA. We “only” had to check
the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We had two courses
Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I made the flight assignments. It was up to me
to decide how. I sorted Nat and SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and
Red. The Flights changed every day in the qualifying serie (8 races in
4 days) based on the overall result. Finals (Gold and Silver) was on
the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done just before 20.00
regardless of open protest decisions or other “unknown” results. It all
went OK.
But: ILCA has got different penalty system in
the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a percentage penalty based on the biggest
“Fleet/Flight” – No problem the SI is clear about this and is handled
by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me. Sailors could have penalty
points added to the score and it could vary from 2, 8 10, 20 or
whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then one
PTS in the same race. This we need in SW – PTS: Scoring points + N
where N is set by hand. So if anyone above the “PTS” sailor is given
for an example DNE the “PTS” sailor should have one place better when
rescoring and the penalty score should follow. Now it was tricky to get
it right.
But my biggest “nightmare” was when the finals
were assigned and a review of score in the qualifying races came up –
SW couldn’t change the results – The only thing to do was copying all
to excel and save the final races that was finished. Clear the final
results, changing the “wrong” ones in the qualifications, rescore and
importing results from CSV!
The organisers were very happy having me
sorting out the problem. They wouldn’t made it without my help – Yes
I’m proud using SW.
I am attaching the final Youthfiles for further
testing – Try changing one PTS in the Q and rescore.
At last. Flightassignments is very hard to
understand for “normal users” so I suggest the Flights and the
flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead as most of Sis that
I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave it’s almost
always meaning flights.
Regards
Anders Landenstad
Proud SW-scorer
As a scorer I would be questioning the Jury for a clear definition of
what PTS meant and how it was to be applied, also as a competitor. Was
there a Change to SI posted explaining exactly what PTS was given for
and its application? I have looked at the event website and cannot find
anything.
Kind regards,
Huw
Anders Landenstad (juniorsegling.se) wrote:
Hi Anders,
Thanks for the prompt reply, it clarifies the problems you had.
Here in the UK in some events we do not include these penalty points as
part of the race results, i.e. a score directly related to a
race. We use a separate field against a competitor which is available
on the ‘Audit’ tab of the competitor information, it is labelled Series
penalty points. Colin included it as parents and competitors at Junior
and Youth events here in the UK were getting confused when I was using
a dummy race to record things like signing in/out penalties. It also
with a dummy race caused problems with discard profile and having to
remember to make it, the dummy race, non-discardable.
Having looked through your .BLW file I notice that the code PTS could
be discard, so in my view this does not cause the competitor to think
about the reason why they have been penalised and stop. Here in the UK
when sign in/out penalties are given they are not discardable so the
solution Colin came up with, described above, works because points
accumulated in the ‘Series penalty points’ field are added to the
series score.
However, it would be good if Colin could provide greater flexibility in
the use of the ‘Series penalty points’ field by allowing a comma
separated string of codes for which points can be set up in the same or
similar way that scoring codes are done (perhaps using the scoring code
facility and allowing the code to to be tagged as for use only with the
‘Series penalty points’ field). Additionally, it would be good if it
could include some way of recording against which race a particular
code was applied and allow for multiple such penalties per race.
For the topper Nationals i use 2 scoring systems, 1 for
qualifying and 1 for final series. (The DNC’s are different in the 2 parts) But
that allows you to untick that box in the qualifying series but leave it ticked
in the final series.
Then you can change the qualifying result, rescore using
qualifying scoring system & then score again with the finals scoring
system.
Anders.
Just been looking at the Sailwave file you attached. With regards to your ‘nightmare’
and changing a Q-series results after it seems that an F-Series had been
sailed, are you aware of the check box labelled ‘Do not recalculate qualifying
race points when at least one finals race has been sailed’ on the ‘App LE
Addendum C’ tab of the Edit Scoring System window. I think this by default is
ticked, but if taken off I think it would have solved your ‘nightmare’.
I haven’t tried it out yet.
Kind regards,
Huw
Anders Landenstad (juniorsegling.se) wrote:
First
of all it has been a great pleasure to score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+
lasers crossing the Finnish line in less than 6 minutes – I probably would
qualify as a sports commentator
It
has not been “a walk in the park” scoring in SW but I have promised ILCA a
guideline using the software. ILCA is preferring another “Dutch” software but
is aware of the widely spread using of SW.
Setting
up the regatta was very easy – All competitor information was delivered by
ILCA. We “only” had to check the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We
had two courses Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I
made the flight assignments. It was up to me to decide how. I sorted Nat and
SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and Red. The Flights changed every day in
the qualifying serie (8 races in 4 days) based on the overall result. Finals
(Gold and Silver) was on the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done
just before 20.00 regardless of open protest decisions or other “unknown”
results. It all went OK.
But:
ILCA has got different penalty system in the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a
percentage penalty based on the biggest “Fleet/Flight” – No problem the SI is
clear about this and is handled by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me.
Sailors could have penalty points added to the score and it could vary from 2,
8 10, 20 or whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then
one PTS in the same race. This we need in SW – PTS: Scoring points + N where N
is set by hand. So if anyone above the “PTS” sailor is given for an example DNE
the “PTS” sailor should have one place better when rescoring and the penalty
score should follow. Now it was tricky to get it right.
But
my biggest “nightmare” was when the finals were assigned and a review of score
in the qualifying races came up – SW couldn’t change the results – The only
thing to do was copying all to excel and save the final races that was
finished. Clear the final results, changing the “wrong” ones in the
qualifications, rescore and importing results from CSV!
The
organisers were very happy having me sorting out the problem. They wouldn’t
made it without my help – Yes I’m proud using SW.
I
am attaching the final Youthfiles for further testing – Try changing one PTS in
the Q and rescore.
At
last. Flightassignments is very hard to understand for “normal users” so I
suggest the Flights and the flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead
as most of Sis that I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave
it’s almost always meaning flights.
I think PTS is a normal penalty (hence discardable score) but the calculation is different from standard penalties of RRS (rounded tu the higher unit instead of closest unit). We have just to write the formula.
To be confirmed
Note, I’m now sailing the Micro Class Worlds and have very little time to read my mails, but I have the softawre and files of the Europeans 2008, probably I find the method we used in ZW-scoring.
Thanks for the pointers to additional issues. Next year there are 4 Laser events being held in the UK:
Radial Worlds Women
Radial Worlds
Laser Worlds
Laser Masters Worlds
The clubs that are hosting these are used to Sailwave and therefore likely to use Sailwave to produce the results. I will try and work with Colin to sort out the areas that have caused Anders a few problems. I will go get the SI’s you mentioned but having looked at the SI’s for the Laser Europeans there are definitions missing as how in particular how the the PTS code is to be used to be used and as I said previously if it can be discarded. Custom & practice appear to show that the PTS is part of a race score and not an event penalty, but so far I have not seen this written explicitly.
Kind regards,
Huw
Philippe DE TROY wrote:
Huw,
As I remember for Europeans last year, there was a difference in rounding the percentage penalties, and/or the questio of ARB and PTS, best have a copy of the standard SI for Worlds and Continentals from the Laser Class Web site.
We scored with the Dutch ZW-scoring, and it was the same prblem the Laser template didn't exist, but a utch judge was part of the development team of ZW and could help us making the configuration.
In my opinion, we should be able to propose a tailor-made solution, as their usual software is less popular in most parts of the World.
Agree but still have to get Colin to cope with a couple of things like the Laser use of PTS. However the Laser class need to clarify if the points for the infractions (Signing in/out and sailing in course area after finishing) are to be part of the race result as Anders configured and able to be discarded or they are penalty points that are added to the series scores as we use frequently at Junior & Youth events here in the UK.
Kind regards,
Huw
Philippe DE TROY wrote:
Anyway, if we want to conquer the World, we should propose a pre§configured solution for this Laser stuff...
The Sailors were penalized for various things. Example: 2 pts for crossing a racing field after finnish. 20 pts for not signing out and in and I think I had something else to... Allways after a jury decision.
Reading through your information on this event and the SI's the only reference I can find in the SI's for PTS is in Rule 1
1.3 Add to rule RRS A11: ARB means scoring penalty after arbitration, PTS scoring penalty for a yellow*
flag after finish.*
First of all it has been a great pleasure to score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+ lasers crossing the Finnish line in less than 6 minutes I probably would qualify as a sports commentator ;-)
It has not been a walk in the park scoring in SW but I have promised ILCA a guideline using the software. ILCA is preferring another Dutch software but is aware of the widely spread using of SW.
Setting up the regatta was very easy All competitor information was delivered by ILCA. We only had to check the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We had two courses Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I made the flight assignments. It was up to me to decide how. I sorted Nat and SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and Red. The Flights changed every day in the qualifying serie (8 races in 4 days) based on the overall result. Finals (Gold and Silver) was on the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done just before 20.00 regardless of open protest decisions or other unknown results. It all went OK.
But: ILCA has got different penalty system in the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a percentage penalty based on the biggest Fleet/Flight No problem the SI is clear about this and is handled by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me. Sailors could have penalty points added to the score and it could vary from 2, 8 10, 20 or whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then one PTS in the same race. This we need in SW PTS: Scoring points + N where N is set by hand. So if anyone above the PTS sailor is given for an example DNE the PTS sailor should have one place better when rescoring and the penalty score should follow. Now it was tricky to get it right.
But my biggest nightmare was when the finals were assigned and a review of score in the qualifying races came up SW couldnt change the results The only thing to do was copying all to excel and save the final races that was finished. Clear the final results, changing the wrong ones in the qualifications, rescore and importing results from CSV!
The organisers were very happy having me sorting out the problem. They wouldnt made it without my help Yes Im proud using SW.
I am attaching the final Youthfiles for further testing Try changing one PTS in the Q and rescore.
At last. Flightassignments is very hard to understand for normal users so I suggest the Flights and the flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead as most of Sis that I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave its almost always meaning flights.
Regards
Anders Landenstad
Proud SW-scorer
As a scorer I would be questioning the Jury for a clear definition of what PTS meant and how it was to be applied, also as a competitor. Was there a Change to SI posted explaining exactly what PTS was given for and its application? I have looked at the event website and cannot find anything.
Kind regards,
Huw
Anders Landenstad (juniorsegling.se) wrote:
Hi Anders,
Thanks for the prompt reply, it clarifies the problems you had.
Here in the UK in some events we do not include these penalty points as part of the race results, i.e . a score directly related to a race. We use a separate field against a competitor which is available on the ‘Audit’ tab of the competitor information, it is labelled Series penalty points. Colin included it as parents and competitors at Junior and Youth events here in the UK were getting confused when I was using a dummy race to record things like signing in/out penalties. It also with a dummy race caused problems with discard profile and having to remember to make it, the dummy race, non-discardable.
Having looked through your .BLW file I notice that the code PTS could be discard, so in my view this does not cause the competitor to think about the reason why they have been penalised and stop. Here in the UK when sign in/out penalties are given they are not discardable so the solution Colin came up with, described above, works because points accumulated in the 'Series penalty points' field are added to the series score.
However, it would be good if Colin could provide greater flexibility in the use of the 'Series penalty points' field by allowing a comma separated string of codes for which points can be set up in the same or similar way that scoring codes are done (perhaps using the scoring code facility and allowing the code to to be tagged as for use only with the 'Series penalty points' field). Additionally, it would be good if it could include some way of recording against which race a particular code was applied and allow for multiple such penalties per race.
Kind regards,
I think PTS is a normal penalty (hence discardable score) but the calculation is different from standard penalties of RRS (rounded tu the higher unit instead of closest unit). We have just to write the formula.
To be confirmed
Note, I’m now sailing the Micro Class Worlds and have very little time to read my mails, but I have the softawre and files of the Europeans 2008, probably I find the method we used in ZW-scoring.
Thanks for the pointers to additional issues. Next year there are 4 Laser events being held in the UK:
Radial Worlds Women
Radial Worlds
Laser Worlds
Laser Masters Worlds
The clubs that are hosting these are used to Sailwave and therefore likely to use Sailwave to produce the results. I will try and work with Colin to sort out the areas that have caused Anders a few problems. I will go get the SI’s you mentioned but having looked at the SI’s for the Laser Europeans there are definitions missing as how in particular how the the PTS code is to be used to be used and as I said previously if it can be discarded. Custom & practice appear to show that the PTS is part of a race score and not an event penalty, but so far I have not seen this written explicitly.
Kind regards,
Huw
Philippe DE TROY wrote:
Huw,
As I remember for Europeans last year, there was a difference in rounding the percentage penalties, and/or the questio of ARB and PTS, best have a copy of the standard SI for Worlds and Continentals from the Laser Class Web site.
We scored with the Dutch ZW-scoring, and it was the same prblem the Laser template didn't exist, but a utch judge was part of the development team of ZW and could help us making the configuration.
In my opinion, we should be able to propose a tailor-made solution, as their usual software is less popular in most parts of the World.
Agree but still have to get Colin to cope with a couple of things like the Laser use of PTS. However the Laser class need to clarify if the points for the infractions (Signing in/out and sailing in course area after finishing) are to be part of the race result as Anders configured and able to be discarded or they are penalty points that are added to the series scores as we use frequently at Junior & Youth events here in the UK.
Kind regards,
Huw
Philippe DE TROY wrote:
Anyway, if we want to conquer the World, we should propose a pre§configured solution for this Laser stuff...
The Sailors were penalized for various things. Example: 2 pts for crossing a racing field after finnish. 20 pts for not signing out and in and I think I had something else to... Allways after a jury decision.
Reading through your information on this event and the SI's the only reference I can find in the SI's for PTS is in Rule 1
1.3 Add to rule RRS A11: ARB means scoring penalty after arbitration, PTS scoring penalty for a yellow*
flag after finish.*
First of all it has been a great pleasure to score the Laser Europeans. Imagine 120+ lasers crossing the Finnish line in less than 6 minutes I probably would qualify as a sports commentator ;-)
It has not been a walk in the park scoring in SW but I have promised ILCA a guideline using the software. ILCA is preferring another Dutch software but is aware of the widely spread using of SW.
Setting up the regatta was very easy All competitor information was delivered by ILCA. We only had to check the sailors and sailnumbers after registration. We had two courses Seniors and Youth. I was taking care of the Youth.
I made the flight assignments. It was up to me to decide how. I sorted Nat and SailNo and gave them flights Yellow and Red. The Flights changed every day in the qualifying serie (8 races in 4 days) based on the overall result. Finals (Gold and Silver) was on the 2 last days, F1-F4. The flightassignment was done just before 20.00 regardless of open protest decisions or other unknown results. It all went OK.
But: ILCA has got different penalty system in the SI, ARB and PTS. ARB is a percentage penalty based on the biggest Fleet/Flight No problem the SI is clear about this and is handled by SW. PTS is a little bit unusual for me. Sailors could have penalty points added to the score and it could vary from 2, 8 10, 20 or whatever the decision would say. A sailor could even get more then one PTS in the same race. This we need in SW PTS: Scoring points + N where N is set by hand. So if anyone above the PTS sailor is given for an example DNE the PTS sailor should have one place better when rescoring and the penalty score should follow. Now it was tricky to get it right.
But my biggest nightmare was when the finals were assigned and a review of score in the qualifying races came up SW couldnt change the results The only thing to do was copying all to excel and save the final races that was finished. Clear the final results, changing the wrong ones in the qualifications, rescore and importing results from CSV!
The organisers were very happy having me sorting out the problem. They wouldnt made it without my help Yes Im proud using SW.
I am attaching the final Youthfiles for further testing Try changing one PTS in the Q and rescore.
At last. Flightassignments is very hard to understand for normal users so I suggest the Flights and the flightassignments is incorporated in Fleets instead as most of Sis that I have read is just using the word Fleet but in Sailwave its almost always meaning flights.
Regards
Anders Landenstad
Proud SW-scorer
As a scorer I would be questioning the Jury for a clear definition of what PTS meant and how it was to be applied, also as a competitor. Was there a Change to SI posted explaining exactly what PTS was given for and its application? I have looked at the event website and cannot find anything.
Kind regards,
Huw
Anders Landenstad (juniorsegling.se) wrote:
Hi Anders,
Thanks for the prompt reply, it clarifies the problems you had.
Here in the UK in some events we do not include these penalty points as part of the race results, i.e . a score directly related to a race. We use a separate field against a competitor which is available on the ‘Audit’ tab of the competitor information, it is labelled Series penalty points. Colin included it as parents and competitors at Junior and Youth events here in the UK were getting confused when I was using a dummy race to record things like signing in/out penalties. It also with a dummy race caused problems with discard profile and having to remember to make it, the dummy race, non-discardable.
Having looked through your .BLW file I notice that the code PTS could be discard, so in my view this does not cause the competitor to think about the reason why they have been penalised and stop. Here in the UK when sign in/out penalties are given they are not discardable so the solution Colin came up with, described above, works because points accumulated in the 'Series penalty points' field are added to the series score.
However, it would be good if Colin could provide greater flexibility in the use of the 'Series penalty points' field by allowing a comma separated string of codes for which points can be set up in the same or similar way that scoring codes are done (perhaps using the scoring code facility and allowing the code to to be tagged as for use only with the 'Series penalty points' field). Additionally, it would be good if it could include some way of recording against which race a particular code was applied and allow for multiple such penalties per race.
