One of the issues in the back of my mind is that ISAF are keen to eliminate discards for obvious spectator-friendly reasons.
If this happens, then a letter score become VERY penalising although some may say so what!
Also, in the sprint format where there are only 3 races in a series, or perhaps 5 in a week long regatta, a letter or bad score would virtually consign the competitor to the minor leagues.
My idea of points being awarded to the top 50% only, means that the bottom 50% don’t fall too far behind, especially the ones who are normally in the top group but suffer from unusual/very variable conditions - Qingdao for example 
Thanks for your input
Ralph
···
From: Geoff Burrell [mailto:geoff.burrell@btinternet.com]
Sent: 07 November 2006 16:02
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Sprint Racing
Hi Ralph
Yes indeed this is a good event format.
It would seem to me that you need to be able to distinguish between scores further down the fleet, which of course you cannot do if the bottom half are scored with nil points. This is of course the basis of previous suggestions that have been offered by others based upon small decimals (0.0001 etc).
There is no reason why you could not score all positions, first to last, so that you can decide who comes in the top 50% since there is then no such thing as a non-scoring race.
The scheme you decide to use may depend on whether the number of boats varies race-to-race within each round. If not then it is easy since you can score high points with the simplest of all methods with the winner scoring s points. But because this is simple linear scoring you can make it whatever you like (i.e… winner scores s + anything) and you would still get the same winner and qualifiers.
And if the number of boats varies race-to-race within the round then you need to make sure the score for the winner is at least equal to the number of competitors in the round. While this is very simple and will work fine this is not quite as fair as a scoring system like CHIPS which in effect makes smallish adjustments for the number of boats and always restricts the scores for finishers to be between 100 and 10. Ties are usually resolved when the number of boats varies but they are not necessarily resolved if the number of boats stays unchanged.
But for the greatest simplicity and to make it understandable to spectators and competitors alike, and to allow for the fact that different classes will have different numbers of competitors, why not apply the following simple method:
For all fleets, irrespective of how many boats take part, then score -
1st = 100
2nd = 99
3rd = 98
etc
Will not this always work (provided of course that the number of boats in a race is less than 100)? Or if you don’t like the idea of large numbers you just need to make the score for a first is slightly greater than the max number of boats in the biggest fleet. Simple to do and simple to understand!
Just an idea….
Geoff
-----Original Message-----
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Tingle
Sent: 07 November 2006 10:26
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Sprint Racing
Hi Geoff
I am developing a new (to me anyway) format of racing, with a view to making our sport more spectator friendly & protecting our place in the Olympics
Racing is over short 15mins races in starts of approx 10 boats.
Depending on numbers, there are heats, qtr finals, semis & Finals (similar to Olympic 100 metres)
Scores are not carried forward from one round to the next so the objective is simply to qualify for the next round.
The format also ensures that everyone on the start line for the Gold Final has a chance of winning medals but at the same time, those who do not ‘qualify’ still keep racing so there are ‘finals’ for 1st - 10th, 11th - 20th etc
The scoring system also need to be easier to understand
-
Each round consists of a series of 3 races
-
Race points are awarded to the top 50% of the fleet eg 1st = 5 points, 2nd = 4 etc
-
No discards
-
Top 50% go through up to next round, bottom 50% go ‘down’ to minor fleets
I have chosen high points (similar to motor racing) so that it follows more conventional sporting scoring ie win & gain points
Also boats that have a bad race do not lose too much ground & can still come back & qualify for the next round
The SW issue has been that with 3 races, it is possible (as per my sample file) for boats to tie on points
When this tie means that one boats qualifies for the next round & the other doesn’t, it only seems fair that we should look at their non-scoring races.
The first event was this Saturday with the RS fleets 200, Vareo, 300, 400 & 800 (we had 8 starts)
We did not have a single race grand final due to time & a requirement to run the vent for multiple classes
I am waiting for feedback but initial comments were FANTASTIC!!
WRT CHIPS
I appreciate that it will work but I suspect working out that a boat has qualified with 147.4 points & the other with 155.1 will be too much for spectators.
So no - you have not missed something subtle, just me with nothing better to do with my time 
Ralph
From: Geoff Burrell [mailto:geoff.burrell@btinternet.com]
Sent: 06 November 2006 21:30
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Scoring systems - Generalisation?
Hi Ralph
Yes CHIPS would have resolved it but of course so too would conventional low point scoring.
Clearly if you decide to make it such that all positions below third score zero then there is no way of distinguishing between a 4th and a 5th in any one race.
The CHIPS scores for your current 5th & 6th rankings are:
5th - 66, 81.4, 66 = 147.4
6th – 81.4, 73.4, 58.4 = 155.1
So your 6th beats your 5th with the higher score.
I fear that I must be missing something subtle since I feel sure you will know that LPS gives the right order too??
Geoff.
-----Original Message-----
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Tingle
Sent: 06 November 2006 18:39
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Scoring systems - Generalisation?
Hi Geoff
Would CHIPS have resolved the RS 300 trial results in the attached?
‘Fair play’ suggests that 5th & 6th should be reversed as both had a 3rd place but the 6th boat had a 4th & should have been 5th under the spirit of App A8
Ralph
From: Geoff Burrell [mailto:geoff.burrell@btinternet.com]
Sent: 06 November 2006 17:43
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Scoring systems - Generalisation?
Go for CHIPS high point scoring which gives fair results for any number of boats and resolves ties. (Well it is very rare for CHIPS to fail to do so).
Geoff
-----Original Message-----
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Tingle
Sent: 06 November 2006 17:16
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Scoring systems - Generalisation?
“…all the rest should get 1 point”.
I have been trying to master this recently with great success but when boats finish in different places & all get the same points, there is a problem with tie breaks.
This is because App A & SW work on race scores not actual rank (position in a race).
Not sure if this is a problem with other variations of special points systems
Colin
If you need any sample data, I have some results from this last weekend
Ralph
From: mboelgen [mailto:martin@seilforening.no]
Sent: 06 November 2006 16:50
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Scoring systems - Generalisation?
Hi, Colin!
I often have questions like “We use this scoring system, can SW do it
for us?”
I could be high point or low point, or what ever… I’ve been
thinking that if I had the possibility to combine “Custom high/low
point defined by a list of points” and “Custom high/low point defined
by a formula”, I could have done MOST variations!
Actually more like a “Custom high/low point list of formulas”. Like
this:
One club has a highpoint system that gives first boat 2.25 points
more than number of competitor ( p+(s+2.25)), the second gets 2
points more than the number of competitors (( p+(s+2)), third gets (
p+(s+1))and so on.
If it wasn’t for the first result, I could have used “Custom high/low
point defined by a list of points” like this: 12.25,12
Since the next is supposed to be -1.
BUT since this also depends on the number of boats in that race, it
would not be correct anyway… That’s why I want “Custom high/low
point list of formulas”, then it would have been: p+(s+2.25),p+(s+2)
and thats it!
Also there are some systems that says that only the first 8 (or so)
boats should be scored (formula) points, and all the rest should get
1 point. DNC=0 points. So, the “Custom high/low point list of
formulas” coult be ended with a code (or anything) after n boats…
I’m not sure why all kinds of systems are used, but they are… So if
I could write expression lists, it would solve this. Or, pherhaps
clubs should use more “standard” scorings…
regards,
Martin
